4: "Teach These Things Freely unto Your Children" (Genesis 5; Moses 6)

0:00:00.7 Tammy Uzelac Hall: When I served in the Young Womens years ago, I remember I said to the Laurels, it was almost time for graduation, and I said, "You realize that in the next five to six months, you could be a Relief Society president," and their eyes were like boing. And I said, "It's true, and you know what? The same goes for the young men, some of these young men, who are now priest, could be branch presidents in a couple of months," when they serve a mission. That is just absolutely amazing, and it's ridiculous, yet God does it. He calls the least qualified, and it often leaves many of us scratching our heads, but God cares far less about capability and more about availability. I can't take credit for that golden nugget, that's Neal A. Maxwell. But for reals, today's discussion of Genesis 5 and Moses 6 is a perfect example of this concept, and the results are miraculous. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original, and it's brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for this week, and we're going to dig into the Scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall.

0:01:02.8 TH: Okay, if you're new to our study group, let's just make sure you know how to use this podcast. So, follow the link in our description, it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study of the Old Testament this year. Just like my friend Cambry Nelson, who I have really enjoyed getting to know through this podcast. So, hi, friend. Okay. Now, here's my favorite thing about this study group, each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always different, and today I'm super excited because we get to have Sharmaine Howell back, Hi, Shar.

0:01:29.9 Sharmaine Howell: Hey, Tammy. Woo.

0:01:31.1 TH: Woo. I know. Yay. And...

[laughter]

0:01:33.1 SH: Hi everybody.

0:01:34.7 TH: She's waving "Hi, everybody." And then we are super excited, how excited are we, Shar, about this one?

0:01:39.8 SH: So excited, it's my favorite.

0:01:41.9 TH: It's my favorite because it's Lyndsey Howell. And Lyndsey is Shar's sister-in-law, another family member, but these are incredible women. Hi, Lynds.

0:01:50.2 Lyndsey Howell: Hey, Tammy. [chuckle]

0:01:52.3 TH: We're so excited. Are you gonna forgive Shar for this?

0:01:56.1 LH: We'll see. I don't know.

[laughter]

0:02:00.7 SH: Oh, I'm so excited to have Lyndsey here, she's the best.

0:02:04.0 TH: How long have you two known each other? Or been related kind of thing.

0:02:09.1 LH: Yeah. 15, 16 years.

0:02:12.3 SH: Yeah, yeah. Lyndsey was one of the first Howell people that I met after Brian, I showed up at his house on day one, and Lyndsey was there.

0:02:20.0 LH: Yes. [laughter]

0:02:21.1 SH: And I was like, "Oh my gosh, she's Irish, and I love her accent."

[laughter]

0:02:25.6 SH: "I wanna be related to her?"

[laughter]

0:02:28.9 LH: Well, we just loved you because Brian was just totally smitten, and we were trying to offer advice on how he could get you. [laughter] And it obviously worked.

[laughter]

0:02:41.1 TH: Well done, Lyndsey, well done.

0:02:42.6 SH: Yes.

[laughter]

0:02:43.7 SH: And Lyndsey and I, and our families, we actually got to live together for nine months in the same household with children together, we had so much fun.

0:02:53.0 LH: Oh. So much fun.

0:02:54.9 SH: Together and hanging out at night, it was awesome.

0:02:57.5 LH: That was brilliant. It really was the best.

0:03:00.9 SH: Yeah.

0:03:01.0 TH: I see, I can already hear her accent coming through.

[laughter]

0:03:02.5 SH: I know.

0:03:02.6 TH: You're right, we're gonna end up sounding like we're Irish by the time this is done Shar.

[chuckle]

0:03:05.9 SH: I know.

0:03:06.7 LH: Great.

0:03:07.1 TH: I love it, I love it. Well, okay, if you wanna know more information about my guests and see pictures of them, you can go to our show notes, which are found at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday and read all about them. So, I just... I love today's lesson so much, and I just have to know how was it for the two of you as you prepared?

0:03:25.9 LH: A bit overwhelmed when I read Genesis 5, right, and it listed all these people.

0:03:30.7 TH: Yes. Yeah, right.

0:03:32.6 LH: I thought, "What could I possibly have to say about all these people?"

[laughter]

0:03:36.7 TH: It's all the begats.

[laughter]

0:03:38.4 LH: It's all the begats. But Moses 6 was beautiful. Yeah.

0:03:43.4 SH: Yeah, I thought the same. I read Genesis 5 and thought, "Oh crap, what are we gonna talk about here?"

[laughter]

0:03:50.9 TH: Well, I can't wait then. Okay. So, let's just jump into Genesis 5. Everyone, grab your Scripture journals and your Scriptures, and let's dig in. Let me just ask both of you this though, have either of you live to meet a great-grandparent?

0:04:04.6 SH: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had great-grandparents when I was little and I'm terrible, but I don't know how old they were, but I think in their 90s.

0:04:11.9 TH: Okay. This is so cool. Because if you go into Genesis 5, we have some of the oldest living relatives listed in Scripture. So, grab a highlighter everyone, and let's go to Genesis Chapter 5. Here's what I wanna do, I'm gonna just call out the Verse numbers, so follow along with me in these Verses, and I want you guys to just tell me whose name is in the Verse that we're talking about. Here we go, who are the two names listed in Verse 3?

0:04:38.0 SH: Right. Adam and Seth.

0:04:39.8 TH: Very good. Okay, let's go to Verse 6, who is it?

0:04:43.9 LH: Enos.

0:04:44.7 TH: Great. Verse 9?

0:04:46.9 LH: Cainan.

0:04:47.9 TH: Okay. Verse 12?

0:04:50.8 SH: Mahalalel. Mahalalel.

0:04:52.3 TH: Ooh, good job. Mahalalel. Excellent. Verse 15?

0:04:57.7 LH: Jared.

0:04:58.7 SH: Jared.

0:04:58.9 TH: Verse 19?

0:05:01.1 LH: Enoch.

0:05:01.2 SH: Enoch.

0:05:02.4 TH: Excellent. Verse 21?

0:05:04.5 SH: Methuselah.

0:05:05.6 TH: Methuselah, that's a fun one. Verse 25?

0:05:09.7 LH: Lamech.

0:05:10.8 TH: Mm-hmm. Verse 29?

0:05:14.1 LH: Noah.

0:05:14.8 SH: Noah.

0:05:14.9 TH: And then Verse 32?

0:05:18.9 SH: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

0:05:21.1 TH: Japheth, yes, the sons of Noah. Very good. Okay. We have all these names and people tend to get lost in the begats, begats, we really have to read this, blah. This is so cool. I want you to go to Verse 25, and I want you to draw a line beneath Verse 25, underneath the name Lamech, draw a line there. Here's something so cool, from Adam to Lamech, all of those men were on the Earth at the exact same time. If I would have said to Lamech, "Who's your oldest living relative?" He would have said, "Oh, it's my great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather is still alive." Six greats from Lamech to Adam. It is a little bit mind-blowing when you think, "But they lived for so long." In fact, how long did Methuselah live? Look at Verse 27, how old was he when he died?

0:06:09.3 SH: 969 years.

0:06:12.2 TH: Whoo. 969 years young. That's what we're supposed to say. That's the politically correct thing. That's where you get that idiom. Have you guys ever heard people say, "He's as old as Methuselah?"

0:06:23.7 LH: Yeah.

0:06:24.8 TH: That's where it's from. Oldest living person in the Bible, 969 years.

0:06:29.7 SH: Okay. So I had a question about these years really quick before you keep going. Do you think that they talked about years in the same length as we did and they really actually lived that long or were they like every month was a year kind of a thing?

0:06:43.7 TH: Oh, Shar. That is such a good question.

0:06:46.3 SH: Honestly, I'm like, "They're not really living to 1000. Let's really get to the realness of this." I don't know. What is it?

0:06:52.6 TH: Oh, Shar. Okay, this is so good. I love so much that you asked this. So let me show you a couple of cool quotes about their ages and we'll have you read one and then we'll have Lyndsey read the other quote. Did they really live this long?

0:07:05.8 SH: Okay. "The question is not completely resolved in Scripture, but several possible answers are implied. Some have interpreted 2 Nephi 2:21 as referring to those living before the flood. The days of the children of men were prolonged according to the will of God that they might repent while in the flesh. Others have suggested that it was righteousness that increased the length of their lives. Others have suggested that the Earth's environment may have changed radically at the time of the flood and that this accounts for the decrease in longevity immediately thereafter. See Moses 8:17. All these factors are feasible explanations. These are not mutually exclusive nor do they exhaust the possibilities."

0:07:50.8 TH: So there it is. And I remember I was always taught that before the flood they really did live that long and then after the flood the Lord shortened the days because they weren't doing much with the 969 years they had to figure it out. There's a great cross-reference. Anywhere on that page where those years are, go ahead and just put Alma Chapter 34, Verse 32-34. That's Alma Chapter 34: 32-34. And let's go there really quick, And Lyndsey, when we get there, will you please read Verse 32?

0:08:27.7 LH: Yeah.

0:08:28.7 TH: I want us to be thinking as we go into the next segment, "What would you do if you had 969 years to live?"

0:08:36.8 LH: Okay. 32?

0:08:38.5 TH: Yes, please.

0:08:39.8 LH: "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. Yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors."

0:08:47.8 TH: Verse 32 is so important, that after the flood it was then, "Now is the time to prepare to meet God. We're gonna shorten the time that you have so you can figure it out." And thank goodness. I don't know if I'd want 969 years to keep repenting. [chuckle] What are your thoughts?

0:09:04.8 SH: And keep making mistakes, right?

0:09:07.3 TH: Yes.

0:09:07.5 SH: Oh, boy.

0:09:08.3 LH: Yeah. No. No, thanks.

0:09:10.7 TH: And raising kids.

0:09:12.8 LH: Yeah.

[laughter]

0:09:13.8 TH: And callings. Shar, you want to be an organist for 969 years?

0:09:17.3 SH: Yeah. Oh, boy. That really hits home.

[laughter]

0:09:20.8 SH: I'm like, "I'm so glad... "

0:09:23.3 LH: You're not still the organist? Are you still the organist?

0:09:24.7 SH: I'm just the stand-in now, for sure.

0:09:26.8 TH: Oh, sure, sure. There you go.

0:09:29.5 SH: I wonder if they were like... Had to live at home for the first 200 years of their life.

[laughter]

0:09:35.3 TH: Okay. You know what? There's some truth to that. I wonder if they weren't fully mature until they were 200 years old and then they could go to college. [chuckle] That'll be fun to figure out how that all worked out. I bet Eve was so tired.

0:09:48.5 SH: They're like... All the women, "Just go talk to mother Eve. She has all the answers."

[laughter]

0:09:52.7 TH: She would have been around. I know. It's amazing. So good. Well, I love all of this. So if you're thinking then, "Well, what did they really do with all of this time?" we're gonna find out in the next segment.

Segment 2

TH: Okay, so I asked you in the last segment and I'm gonna start it out again, really though, what would you do if you had 969 years to live?

0:10:19.7 LH: I would hope that I would eventually get it right, but I would hope that if I had 969 years that I would have a close relationship with God and that I would rely on the Spirit that I, I don't know, kind of like Enoch did, I would be able to walk with God after 969 years. But I don't know that's... I don't know.

0:10:44.7 SH: I know one of those thoughts that's like when you used to tell your kids you're gonna live forever, it's just like, "What are we gonna do forever?" That's a long time to live on the Earth. What would you do, Tammy?

0:10:55.8 LH: Yeah.

0:10:56.7 TH: Oh my gosh, my bucket list would be gigantic. It'd be so huge and I would just start whittling away. I probably...

0:11:04.8 SH: Whittling like wood? Whittling wood?

0:11:07.5 TH: Oh, sure, that'd probably be on my bucket list too. I'd learn to whittle, I'd learn how to play the harmonica. Think about a bucket list if you had 900 years to put things on there.

0:11:16.8 SH: You know what I would do? I would have Lyndsey teach me voice lessons because I've always wanted to sing and she has an angel voice.

0:11:23.9 TH: Lyndsey sings.

0:11:24.0 LH: Wow, thank you.

0:11:24.7 SH: Yes. So good.

0:11:26.8 TH: Oh my gosh. Okay, see? That's great. Yes.

0:11:30.5 SH: I would become a singer.

0:11:31.8 LH: Yeah.

0:11:32.7 TH: Okay.

0:11:32.8 LH: I'd become an organist.

0:11:34.8 TH: See? Now there you go. It would take you about 900 years to figure that out.

0:11:37.3 LH: It would take me 900 years.

0:11:40.1 TH: So yeah, totally. Okay. Well, we're gonna go into Scripture because here is what all nine of these men, and by the way, the unnamed wives, were doing throughout all of this time. So as we read this Verse, here's what I want you to do. We're gonna go to Moses Chapter 6 now. Moses Chapter 6 and we are going to read Verse 22 and 23. I'm gonna read it. And as I read these two Verses, I want you to underline what they were doing during this time. So in Moses Chapter 6 from Verse 1 until 22 is the genealogy. So it mirrors Genesis Chapter 5, but again, like we've talked about and we mentioned this in the very first episode, there are very vital pieces of information that are missing from the Bible because the Bible is copies of copies of copies. We don't actually have the original Old Testament in Hebrew and so we're just doing the best we can. The men did the best they could to put this Bible together and so here's some vital information we're missing that we're gonna talk about today and I love what it says about what these people were doing. So Verse 22 and 23. "And this is the genealogy of the sons of Adam, who was the son of God, with whom God himself conversed and they were preachers of righteousness and spake and prophesied and called upon all men everywhere to repent and faith was taught unto the children of men." Tell me what you marked.

0:13:03.2 SH: That he conversed with God, in Verse 22, and that they were preachers of righteousness. So we're just... They were just preaching the gospel, faith, repentance.

0:13:16.8 TH: Yeah. Lyndsey, what are all the verbs in that Verse, in 23? What are the action words?

0:13:25.5 LH: They spake and prophesied, they called on men to repent, and that they taught faith to their children.

0:13:32.3 TH: Wow. Yeah. Lot of action words in that one Verse, right? Is there a way you'd sum that up?

0:13:43.5 SH: I would... The phrase that comes to mind is "anxiously engaged", to me.

0:13:48.0 TH: Oh, I like that. I'm gonna put that to the outside of my Verse.

0:13:52.4 SH: Just like... They were doers, right?

0:13:54.7 LH: Yeah.

0:13:56.3 SH: This where the first proponents of the Nike slogan.

[laughter]

0:14:00.3 TH: Do it. I love that.

0:14:02.8 TH: Spencer W. Kimball. Awesome, okay. Now, here's what's so cool. I really love what lectures on faith teaches us about the significance of what these men were doing. Remember, we have Adam to Lamech on the Earth, at the same time. That is a lot of prophets who were preaching and prophesying to the people. So I wanna share this quote with you. Lyndsey, will you read this for us? This is what Joseph Smith taught about what these men were doing while they were on the Earth. What they're doing with their testimonies.

0:14:36.6 LH: "What testimony had the immediate descendants of Adam, in proof of the existence of God? The testimony of their father. And so from father to child, the knowledge was communicated as extensively, as the knowledge of his existence was known. For it was by this means, in the first instance, that man had a knowledge of his existence."

0:14:54.2 TH: "From father to son, they bore their testimony and they just taught each other." Now in lectures on faith, Joseph Smith also pointed out that there were four truths that Adam knew and taught his children. So, I want us to just read these four truths, and as I do, as I'm reading these, what I want us to discuss after is: What did you just learn about God from these four truths, and basically from the testimony of Adam? So here we go, Shar start with the first truth.

0:15:20.5 SH: Okay. And these... Sorry, these truths, Joseph told us, were just what he learned about from in Moses 6?

0:15:30.1 TH: Good question, Shar. Okay, so these are truths that Joseph learned about these men, while studying the Scriptures. So, we can just assume that it did come from Moses and Genesis.

0:15:40.3 SH: Okay, and this... So that's what he came up with that Adam was teaching his...

0:15:44.2 TH: Yep.

0:15:44.4 SH: His children. Okay.

0:15:46.2 TH: Excellent.

0:15:47.0 SH: Okay. "First, when man was created, he stood in the presence of God and had a perfect knowledge of God."

0:15:55.0 LH: "Secondly, God conversed with him after his transgression. From this we learn that though man did transgress, he was not deprived of the previous knowledge which he had of the existence of God."

0:16:05.6 TH: "Thirdly, God conversed with man after he cast him out of the garden."

0:16:10.9 SH: "Fourthly, God also conversed with Cain after he had slain Abel."

0:16:18.8 TH: What did we just learn about God from Adam?

0:16:24.1 LH: I think we see that God loves us no matter what, and that he's there, and talks to us and just loves... Just loves us. I get just that he loves us so much. I think that sometimes when my kids do something naughty, I... Not that I withhold love from them, but I'm just like, "Oh, you shouldn't have done that, that was... That was so naughty." But I think that God is not like that. I think that he still just extends his love, you know, and yeah, maybe what you did wasn't right, but you're still mine. You're still my child.

0:16:57.5 SH: Yeah, and he was there after they transgressed. He was there after Cain sinned, he was... He kept on trying to converse with him.

0:17:07.5 LH: Yeah.

0:17:09.9 TH: Okay. I am so touched with how you both noticed the same theme from these four truths. Because so often we read in the Scriptures that if you don't keep the commandments, you'll be cut off. But you have to remember that cut off phrase means "and, and, and"... When all is said and done, there's nothing else that can save you". Done. It doesn't mean right now. We are not cut off in this earthly life, and I just thought that was beautiful, how... I just, I hadn't considered... We talked about it in our last episode, but just that... Yeah, even after Cain killed his brother, the Lord still came to him and said, "Hey, what's going on here?" We're not cut off in this life." I love... And Lyndsey I love that...

0:17:47.9 LH: That is amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Sometimes you just feel so... Like, "So unworthy to even pray?", you know. But God wants us to come to him, he's just waiting.

0:18:03.3 TH: How can you teach that to your children, Lyndsey?

0:18:06.0 LH: I think by example. By just always being there for them and loving them, no matter what, no matter what... What they do. I just want them to always know that their dad and I love them. They can come to us.

0:18:19.9 TH: Yeah, definitely.

0:18:21.8 SH: Yeah.

0:18:23.0 TH: Thank you. What about you, Shar?

0:18:25.5 SH: It just made me think like Adam when he protected the fruit, probably he never felt more guilty that he did that. And Cain did such a terrible thing, just... I don't wanna compare myself to Cain, but I've never done something like that.

[laughter]

0:18:39.4 SH: And so... Right? God is gonna love me for my little mistakes that I make every single day, even though I make them over and over and over. And I do feel a lot like Lyndsey. Sometimes I get down on my knees and I'm just like, "Ah, I don't even feel worthy to be asking for you to help me right now, but I need you to help me," and it's always an instant flood of love from him. Just waiting. It just makes me think, he's waiting for us to turn to him and to ask him for that help. And, also like Lyndsey, I just wanna teach that to my kids, because if I can be like that to them, so much more that they'll know that their Heavenly Father is like that to them.

0:19:24.1 TH: You know what just struck me? As I was sitting here thinking like, okay, as adults, we do feel this pressure to teach the children, whether it's our own or in a calling that we have, or a niece, or a nephew, or someone that we love. And I think what I'm finding so fascinating is that, here's what Joseph Smith says here is what Adam testified of, this is what he would spend 900 years letting his posterity know, and it wasn't a list of, "You gotta get baptized, you gotta repent, you gotta do service, you better go to church, you gotta pay your tithing," which I'm sure he did teach, but the most important thing he taught is what you guys just taught us, is how much God and Jesus Christ love them. And it almost seems like if that is the message we give to every youth we come in contact with, everything else falls in line, right?

0:20:11.7 SH: Mm-hmm.

0:20:12.6 LH: Yeah, yeah.

0:20:13.6 SH: And I think there has to be a little bit more of us listening to these youth and these children, because we've been asked to be like a little child, and there's something to that, right?

0:20:24.9 TH: Yeah.

0:20:25.9 SH: And when I listen to my kids, more often, they're teaching me how to be forgiving and how to turn around and say, "It's okay, mom. I know you didn't mean that," right?

0:20:37.1 TH: Yeah.

[chuckle]

0:20:37.9 LH: Yeah.

0:20:38.1 TH: Right. Oh, I love that. Great discussion. Thank you so much. So for those of us listening, I just want us to take a little minute, and in your journals kind of just write, like if you had 969 years, or you know what, whether it's 969 or 96 years, or if it's 15 years or 52 years, however long you have left to live, what are you gonna do with that time? What's the message that you want the people in your life to know based on what Adam taught his posterity? And I know for me, I'm gonna make a goal right now to make sure my kids know that they are loved, that God and Jesus love them no matter what. That is profound. So just take a minute and kinda write that down.

0:21:19.1 TH: So here we have nine generations of men preaching righteousness, sharing their testimony, calling upon every man everywhere to repent and know that God loves them. And so in the next segment, we're going to look at one specific man in that genealogical line and about his specific testimony.

Segment 3

0:21:45.5 TH: So let's turn to Genesis Chapter 5, and we're gonna look at Verse 22 and 24. So we have talked about this, that important truths have been lost, and this one kind of blows my mind. So turn to Genesis Chapter 5, and we're gonna look at Verse 22, and then Verse 24. Lyndsey, will you please read Verse 22?

0:22:08.4 LH: "And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah 300 years and begat sons and daughters."

0:22:14.0 TH: So who are we talking about according to Verse 22?

0:22:17.5 LH: Enoch.

0:22:18.4 TH: Enoch, very good. Highlight that name. So here we know about Enoch, okay? Now, FYI, this is not the same Enoch that comes from Cain's line. Cain actually will have a son and they'll name him Enoch, completely different Enoch. And I needed to learn that, 'cause I was like, "Wait a minute, is this the same guy that did righteousness and he had such a wicked dad?" No, not the same Enoch. This is Enoch from Methuselah. Now, look at Verse 24. Shar, read that for us.

0:22:41.4 SH: "And Enoch walked with God and he was not, for God took him."

0:22:46.9 TH: And that's the end of Enoch. That is all we read about him in the entire Old Testament. So where's the rest of his story? Now, I'm gonna give you some cross-references. Next to Verse 24, put Hebrews Chapter 11, Verse 5. We're not gonna go there, I just want you to put these references, Hebrews 11:5, and then Jude Chapter 1 Verse 14. So these are in the New Testament, which, hello, can't even wait to do the New Testament. Jeez, love it.

0:23:12.0 SH: Yeah.

0:23:13.0 TH: Jude Chapter 1 Verse 14. So in these two Verses, Enoch is mentioned. So there is a belief about this Prophet Enoch, there has to be a knowledge of what he did and his goodness, yet it is nowhere written in the Old Testament.

0:23:28.5 SH: So this is the Enoch that the city of Enoch was taken...

0:23:31.7 TH: Yes.

0:23:32.1 LH: Yeah.

0:23:32.1 SH: Up into the clouds? Or is this not that Enoch? This is that Enoch?

0:23:35.0 TH: It is that Enoch.

0:23:35.2 SH: Okay.

0:23:36.1 LH: Yeah.

0:23:36.3 SH: Okay.

0:23:36.7 TH: So let's find out about that Enoch, then. We have to go back to Moses 6. How cool that now we get the story of Enoch, 'cause it ends right there in the Old Testament, and there's...

0:23:46.3 SH: So the people in the... The people who believe in the Old Testament but not in Moses, in our books, they don't know about his city being taken up.

0:23:54.1 TH: Ooh, okay, that is such a good question. So they do believe that Enoch was taken up, because in Verse 25, we read that it says, "He was not, for God took him," which they interpret that he was translated like Elijah. But the Book of Moses teaches us that Enoch and his people were taken, or that God took them. So the Book of Moses teaches us beyond the Genesis account.

0:24:17.8 SH: Interesting.

0:24:18.8 TH: So they know that he walked with God, they know that he was taken up, and that's it.

0:24:23.2 SH: Okay.

0:24:23.3 TH: So we're gonna find out some pretty cool things about Enoch, and we're gonna start in Moses Chapter 6, Verse 26. Verse 25 tells us that Enoch lived 65 years and then he had his son Methuselah, and now look what it tells us about Enoch in Verse 26. Go ahead, Shar.

0:24:38.4 SH: "And it came to pass that Enoch journeyed in the land among the people, and as he journeyed, the Spirit of God descended out of Heaven and abode upon him."

0:24:46.1 TH: Okay, wow, highlight that at the end, right? The Spirit of God descended out of Heaven and abode upon him. And when this happened, he hears something. Let's look at Verse 27, and all I want you to do is just read to the dash. So start at Verse 27, read to the dash, and Lyndsey, will you read that for us? So let's find out what the Spirit did or said to Enoch.

0:25:12.1 LH: "And he heard a voice from Heaven saying, 'Enoch, my son, prophesy unto this people, and say unto them.'"

0:25:18.1 TH: Okay, what has he been asked to do?

0:25:20.4 LH: Prophesy.

0:25:21.5 TH: Yes. So he's gonna do what his fathers did, which should come by way of example, right? After the dash, here are the people he's gonna teach. We're gonna finish reading Verse 27, and we're gonna read Verse 28 and 29. So there's three Verses. Now, I'm gonna read these Verses, and as I do, I want you to underline the reason for Enoch's call, underline the reason that the Lord has asked Enoch to do this. Here we go.

0:25:45.7 TH: "Repent, for thus saith the Lord, I am angry with this people, and my fierce anger is kindled against them, for their hearts have waxed hard, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes cannot see afar off. And for these many generations, ever since the day that I created them, have they gone astray and have denied me, and have sought their own counsels in the dark and in their own abominations have they devised murder and have not kept the commandments which I have given unto their father, Adam. Wherefore, they have forsworn themselves, and by their oaths, they have brought upon themselves death, and a hell I have prepared for them if they repent not." What is the purpose and reason for this call?

0:26:29.6 SH: They're being really wicked. The Lord is angry with them.

0:26:33.9 TH: Yes. Is there a specific phrase or words that stood out to you about the spiritual condition of these people?

0:26:41.9 LH: Their hearts have waxed hard, their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes cannot see afar off.

0:26:47.0 TH: Why'd you mark that, Lynds?

0:26:49.8 LH: I don't know.

[chuckle]

0:26:56.4 TH: I'm so glad you did, though.

0:26:56.6 LH: Sorry.

0:26:57.4 TH: No.

0:26:58.0 SH: I marked that, too.

0:26:58.8 TH: Okay. Well, I didn't even tell you guys to mark that, and I'm so glad you did, 'cause let's break it down. Here's why... I'm gonna tell you, those very specific Hebrewisms, things that when the Lord says this to Enoch, Enoch's like, "Oh, wow." So let me tell you what it means. Okay. Highlight, "Their hearts have waxed hard." Hearts have waxed hard. So when something waxes, it means... There's a couple of different ways, but in the 1828 Websters Dictionary, I love this, when something waxes, it passes from one state to another. So their hearts have passed from one state to another. So if it's hard now, what does it tell us their hearts were at one point?

0:27:36.7 LH: Soft?

0:27:40.6 TH: Soft, yes. So their hearts have waxed hard. Then, their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes cannot see afar off. Okay. I love this, because they're not really going deaf, and they're not really going blind. But there's a couple of cool references that I want you to put next to these Verses. And I'll have these in our show notes. It's Isaiah Chapter 6, Verse 10, Jeremiah Chapter 5, Verse 21, and Ezekiel Chapter 12, Verse 2. So I'll say them again. Isaiah Chapter 6, Verse 10, Jeremiah or just J-E-R, Jer, Chapter 5, Verse 21, and Ezekiel Chapter 12, Verse 2. Now, here's what these... If you go and read these Verses, what you will learn is that wording right there is specifically referring to those who break their covenants.

0:28:35.6 SH: Yeah.

0:28:36.8 TH: That covenant keepers see and covenant keepers hear. And that word hear, when it says, "Their ears are dull of hearing," remember we've learned that hearing in Hebrew is Shema, which means to obey. And so this is covenant language. Their hearts were once soft. They were at one time covenant keepers. At one time, they did see fully, and they did hear as well as they could... They heard adequately or keenly, I should say. Yeah, they heard keenly. And so it's so sad that the wording he uses here first off is, "My fierce anger is kindled against them, for they have forsaken their covenants." They're covenant breakers. And then he goes into the describing why. "They've denied me. They sought their own counsel." Isn't that interesting? They sought their own counsels in the dark. Oh, I totally marked that. What do you think that means?

0:29:28.0 SH: Scary stuff.

0:29:29.4 TH: Right?

0:29:29.8 SH: I don't know.

0:29:31.4 TH: Well, could it... Yeah, when someone seeks their own counsel in the dark.

0:29:31.7 SH: Well, you're not in the light, right? You don't wanna be seen, you don't wanna be heard of other people. You wanna be hidden, right?

0:29:38.7 TH: Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's a great way to describe that. As you looked over those Verses, how would you... If you were Enoch, how would you be feeling about the assignment or the call?

0:29:52.0 LH: Overwhelmed, I think. [chuckle] Yeah. I think he would feel heartbroken that... That that's how they were, and just overwhelmed at the assignment of calling them to repentance and he probably loved the people, and yeah, it broke his heart. He probably wanted... And it's just like President Nelson today, he warns us, and he loves us, and he wants us to stay on the covenant path, and it probably breaks his heart, too, to see members of the church in particular maybe that have broken their covenants. And I think likewise for us, when we see members of our own wards that were maybe people that we looked up to and were so strong that have stepped away from the church, that breaks my heart. So I can imagine for him. Yeah.

0:30:43.1 TH: Lyndsey, I love that you made that connection to our prophet. Thank you so much. That was great. What about you, Shar?

0:30:48.9 SH: Well, just the fact that how hard it would be to then have his call be to tell them to repent. Someone who's behaving like this, who has made covenants, who really probably does know what they should be doing, they're... It seems like it would be even harder for them to hear the call to repentance. They don't wanna hear it. And so for him, he's like, "How am I supposed to bring these people back? They know what they should be doing, but... And they've already been told. What am I gonna do to tell them even more?" So...

0:31:25.9 TH: Oh, I love that you just made him human. That was great, Shar. Yeah, I'm sure he was absolutely like, "What am... How am I gonna fix this?" Oh, that is so good.

0:31:36.7 SH: Right.

0:31:36.8 TH: That is so good, Shar.

0:31:37.0 SH: Right. How about you fix this? [chuckle] You go back to their heart, then I'll stand here and cheer you on.

0:31:41.0 TH: I'll hand out water bottles. Yeah. Exactly. Totally. Well, I love you just said that, Shar, because, you know what? In the next segment, we are gonna find out how Enoch responded to this call.

Segment 4

0:31:57.3 TH: Alright, you guys, you are ready for this? I got a question for you. Would the Lord ever ask you to do something that you were so ill qualified to do?

[laughter]

0:32:08.3 LH: Yes.

0:32:10.3 SH: Isn't that what all callings are.

0:32:12.8 TH: Give me an example, what have you been asked to do that you were so ill qualified?

0:32:18.3 SH: For sure, I was inadequate when they called me to be the organist and I'd never touched an organ in my life. That is being inadequate, I mean...

0:32:25.6 SH: Oh, yeah, yeah, that is.

0:32:26.6 SH: Hello, I was like, "I think you've got the wrong person. I'm really sure that you don't know, I don't play the organ." "Oh, well, you're gonna learn." I'm like, "Oh, boy, here we go."

0:32:36.8 TH: Perfect example. Yes, I get to... Because a piano player does not an organist make so...

0:32:42.2 SH: No.

0:32:42.3 LH: No, no.

[laughter]

0:32:45.1 TH: Oh, boy, we... That was a quick curve for you. You did a great job by the way. You are a great ward organist, honestly.

0:32:50.0 SH: Well, after I played that first week and then somebody... A great friend of mine came up to me afterwards, said, "I think I can get... Hook you up with a good teacher.

[laughter]

0:33:01.6 SH: That's how you learn, folks.

[laughter]

0:33:03.9 LH: Oh, my gosh.

0:33:06.6 TH: Oh, my goodness.

0:33:06.7 LH: Oh, my gosh.

0:33:07.0 SH: Oh, that's a great one, Shar. I love that.

0:33:09.0 LH: That's so funny.

0:33:10.0 TH: So funny. Lynds, what about you? Do you have one?

0:33:13.2 LH: Okay. Well, I'm living it this very minute.

[laughter]

0:33:18.3 LH: So about seven or eight months ago, I was called to be the Young Women's president in my ward. I'm a crier. Inadequate doesn't even cover how I felt when I was called, because the last time I was in Young Women's was when I was a young woman. So that was... I was gonna say 20 years ago, but I think it was more than 20 years ago.

[laughter]

0:33:42.6 TH: Sure, sure.

0:33:42.7 LH: So I will go with 20.

0:33:42.9 SH: Everything is 20th after...

0:33:46.0 LH: Yeah.

0:33:46.5 SH: After 20. Yeah, so...

[laughter]

0:33:48.3 LH: But yeah, I haven't ever served in Young Women. I grew up in Northern Ireland, and my Young Women's was small. There were maybe six or seven of us and I went to a different high school from the youth in my ward, and so Young Women's wasn't... It wasn't easy to connect with the girls, and it wasn't the most positive of experiences really. And I have great leaders, I love them, but when I got called to be Young Womens president, I just... I said to the Bishop, "What are you thinking?"

[laughter]

0:34:21.5 LH: I can't do this. And I look at the women in my ward and I think half of you could do this standing on your head. I'm comfortable in primarily playing the piano and hiding behind there where nobody can see me. And my husband is so outgoing and the youth just adore him. And so I just think, "We're just total opposites," like, "Why me?" And I've got 30 young women, and I think, "How can I connect with them? How can I show them that I love them?" It's just really overwhelming.

0:34:51.5 TH: I can tell.

0:34:52.9 SH: And I'm sure you're doing such a fantastic job.

0:34:56.4 TH: Right.

0:34:57.0 SH: Every time I see you, Lyndsey, all I feel is just how much you love, and you just give me a big hug, and I'm like, "Aww, I just love it," and I'm sure that's what you do for your Young Women. I know they feel that from you.

0:35:08.1 LH: I hope so. I've loved this calling in that I think I've never felt closer to Heavenly Father because I... Lyndsey couldn't be the Young Women's president without him. I just couldn't do it without prayer and feeling close to him and knowing that, "Oh, my goodness, he loves these girls so much," and it's easy then to love them because I'm doing it with him, you know, but yeah, totally overwhelmed.

0:35:35.4 SH: Wow, that's awesome.

0:35:37.8 TH: Lyndsey...

0:35:37.9 LH: Yeah.

0:35:37.9 TH: Thank you for sharing that. I really... I appreciate you shared that because it is a perfect lead-in to how Enoch was feeling about his call. Everything you just said is Moses Chapter 6, Verses 31-34. We just have to study this 'cause it... Oh, Lyndsey, you did a great job.

0:35:55.4 TH: Let's go to Moses Chapter 6, Verse 31, and I'm just gonna let you read this Lyndsey 'cause here is Enoch's response.

0:36:01.9 LH: Okay. Oh, Tammy.

[chuckle]

0:36:06.3 LH: "And when Enoch had heard these words, he bowed himself to the Earth before the Lord and spake before the Lord saying, 'Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight, and am but a lad, and all the people hate me for I am slow of speech, wherefore am I thy servant.'"

0:36:20.8 TH: Aww. How does that Verse relate to you, Lynds?

0:36:24.6 LH: Just like, "Why me?" I'm just not good at these things. This is just not something that comes natural to me, like, "Why me?"

0:36:35.4 SH: Yeah.

0:36:36.7 TH: I think what struck me, too, is that when he says, "Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight?" I wonder if maybe the next time I get asked to do something that I'm like, "There's no way I can do it," rather than being like, "What are you thinking?" And I would go to the Lord, "Why I have I found favor. Why do you think I could do this?" That's a... I loved how he turns that, right?

0:36:52.7 LH: Yeah.

0:36:54.0 TH: And he knows he's inadequate. How sad is... People hate me. Oh gosh, who can't relate to that today, you know?

0:37:01.5 LH: I know. I know.

0:37:02.0 SH: Yeah. Well, he's so different...

0:37:03.4 TH: Oh it's not my part.

0:37:03.5 SH: He's so different from them. Right? He's so different from them...

0:37:06.9 TH: So different.

0:37:07.4 SH: He probably does feel hated by them for how he lives his life.

0:37:11.2 TH: Yes, and "I'm not eloquent, I'm slow of speech."

0:37:14.3 SH: Oh, that one hit me home.

0:37:16.2 TH: Tell me why.

0:37:17.0 SH: Slow of speech, I just feel like I can never find the words and I'm in a situation or teaching a lesson, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm just jumbling all over... Let's just pass the baton to whoever else wants to speak. Someone like you Tammy that's...

[laughter]

0:37:29.8 LH: I know.

0:37:30.4 SH: You are fast of speech. And you are...

[laughter]

0:37:34.7 TH: I am fast of speech but I'm not bright. So that's a bad combination.

[laughter]

0:37:38.7 LH: No. Me too. If I get asked... If I have to teach a lesson or something. I will stress out over that for two weeks. And I will have to write everything down and just be so nervous... And then my husband, they could ask him five minutes before sacrament, "Oh, hey, a teacher's not here. Can you teach this lesson?" "Sure, no problem." I would be shaking in my boots.

0:38:00.9 TH: Yeah.

0:38:01.0 LH: Who? Do you want me to speak words... No, no.

0:38:03.5 TH: It's so true. And I love how real we get to learn that Enoch is in this Verse. Rather than just as a prophet going, "You bet. I'm all over it, I can do it," He's like, "For reals? I got reasons why I probably wouldn't be your best option." Just like you said, Lyndsey, there's plenty of other people who could do a much better job. Enoch could even have said, "Couldn't you call any one of my great, great, great, great, great, greats that are still on the Earth?"

0:38:28.4 SH: Yeah, yeah. "There's nine other prophets."

0:38:31.5 TH: Yeah. [chuckle]

0:38:32.4 SH: "Come on."

0:38:33.4 TH: Yeah. "There are nine other prophets that could do so much better." Exactly. And so I really love this quote. This is by Elder Kevin R. Duncan. He is a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy and in March of last year, he spoke at Ensign College. He talked about these things he calls the demons of inadequacy and I just wanted us to read this part of the quote. Shar, will you read this for us?

0:38:56.0 SH: Yeah. "At times you may hear the demons of inadequacy whispering in your ears that you cannot do this, but do not listen to them. Listen instead to the angels of hope and to the source of all hope, that being Jesus Christ, the only true source of hope. Each one of you is a choice son or daughter of God, and you are created in his image. You are not a failure, you are not a fraud. You're created to succeed and with the help of the Savior, I promise that you will succeed."

0:39:26.2 LH: Wow.

0:39:27.0 SH: I love that quote. That's great.

0:39:28.4 LH: Beautiful.

0:39:29.5 TH: So great, right?

0:39:31.2 SH: I love how he says, "You are not a fraud." I don't know why I feel like a fraud so often when I'm... Currently, I'm the gospel doctrine teacher. I am a fraud.

0:39:40.0 TH: No, you're not.

0:39:42.4 SH: You just feel like, "I'm a failure. I can't live up to this. I don't know why I was asked to do this." But that's Satan talking, telling us that we're not inadequate enough to do whatever good thing we've been asked to do, right?

0:39:57.4 TH: Yeah.

0:39:57.5 LH: Yeah.

0:39:58.0 TH: Absolutely. Because you have found favor in his sight. He thinks you can do this. Whatever calling it is. And I love how he said that the Lord is the source of hope. And Lyndsey, with your story, you bore a beautiful testimony. When you said that, I felt the Spirit as you said that it's been an experience where you have felt the Spirit and you have felt closer to Heavenly Father than before because that is exactly what happened with Enoch. Let's look at Moses Chapter 6, Verses 32-34. And we're gonna watch how the Lord encouraged... How the source of hope encouraged Enoch in this assignment by basically saying, "You're not a failure, you can do this." So let's just read 32-34 and we'll each take a Verse. And Lyndsey, we'll start with you, and then we'll go Lyndsey, Shar, then me.

0:40:42.4 LH: "And the Lord said unto Enoch, 'Go forth and do as I have commanded thee and no man shall pierce thee. Open thy mouth and it shall be filled and I will give thee utterance, for all flesh is in my hands and I will do as seemeth me good.'"

0:40:56.3 SH: "Say into these people, 'Choose ye this day to serve the Lord God who made you.'"

0:41:01.5 TH: "Behold, my Spirit is upon you. Wherefore all thy words will I justify and the mountains shall flee before you and the rivers shall turn from their course and thou shalt not... Sorry. And thou shalt abide in me and I in you, therefore walk with me." Don't you love that he invites him? "Just walk with me." What does that tell us? What does that imply?

0:41:23.5 SH: He's not asking him to do it on his own. He's saying, "You can do it. Just do it and I will be right next to you while you're doing it."

0:41:34.0 LH: Oh, I love that.

0:41:35.5 SH: Yeah.

0:41:36.2 TH: It's so good. We have to highlight this word in Verse 33 though, because this is powerful, where it says, "Lord God." He says, "Say unto these people, 'Choose ye this day to serve the Lord God who made you.'" Highlight "Lord God." That's our Hebrew word for the week. And it is incredible when you break it down in Hebrew, so I wanna tell you a little bit about it. It is so significant that this phrase "Lord God" is found over 200 times in the Old Testament, so be aware of it as you're reading the Old Testament this year. Every time you see the combination of those words "Lord God," highlight it, remember what I'm about to teach you.

0:42:11.4 TH: So here's what you need to know. The word "Lord" in the Old Testament is the Hebrew name for Jehovah, which, which is, "Yahweh." It is derived from a causative form of a verb, which means, "To be or to exist." And Professor Andrew Skinner teaches that it literally means... So the name Yahweh literally means, "He will cause to be." Okay, so think about that. So we have Lord saying, "He will cause to be," and then we have the name God, which in Hebrew is Elohim. And we learned this when we talked with Don Perry, which was so fun, that Elohim is actually the plural form of the name God. So Elohim allows for it to be heavenly parents, so this is so cool. It's the gods. Now listen to this. The phrase "Lord God" is a powerful translation. What it means is, "He will cause gods to be." And Don Perry teaches that our doctrine allows for these two words to be a translation and Don Perry said this quote, "The Lord is a creator of gods or the idea that females and males in mortality can become like God in eternity."

0:43:17.5 TH: And so now here's Enoch. He's saying, "Choose ye this day to serve the Lord God who made you." Basically saying, "I made you and I will cause you to become gods if you walk with me, if you stay with me." And he uses that term to remind us of who he is and what he's doing for us here right now on this planet. Isn't that amazing?

0:43:41.0 LH: Yeah.

0:43:41.2 SH: Yeah.

0:43:42.0 TH: He will cause you to become a god. I just think it's so cool. So when we hear this and when the Lord uses that phrase to Enoch, he's like, "I got you. You can totally do this and I'm going to help you... "

0:43:55.4 SH: "Because you are from me and you will become like me."

0:44:00.0 LH: Yeah. Wow, that's good. Yeah.

0:44:02.4 TH: I'm gonna write that down.

0:44:04.4 LH: Yeah.

0:44:05.5 SH: Any inadequacies that we feel are just temporary, right, while we're learning and growing because we can become like God who is perfect.

0:44:15.5 TH: Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, that is so good. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, so after the Lord reassured Enoch, then the Lord asked Enoch to do something first before he began his journey that may seem a little bit unusual and we're gonna talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 5

0:44:37.5 TH: Okay, here we go. This is the only thing I could think of when I was reading these Verses, the movie Karate Kid. Do you remember when Daniel San, when he was asked to do some pretty crazy things by sensei? What was he asked to do in preparation to become a karate master? That was weird.

0:44:54.5 SH: To wax on and wax off.

0:44:55.3 LH: Wax on and wax off.

0:44:56.2 TH: I love that Lyndsey just did the motion. To "Wax on, wax off"

0:45:01.8 SH: Hey kid, paint the fence. Paint the fence. Paint the fence.

0:45:07.5 TH: Exactly, and do you remember what was his reaction when he was told to do these things?

0:45:13.1 SH: This is not Karate.

0:45:14.5 TH: Yeah, "What are we doing exactly?". It was so interesting in reading Moses Chapter 6, because in Verse 35, the Lord asks Enoch to do something that is so simple, that was the other thing, is that Daniel's like "These are stupid simple things like, I'm waxing your car I am painting your fence, I'm doing all these dumb things. What is it gonna matter?" And there is such an important powerful lesson found in Verse 35, when the Lord asks Enoch to do something so simple, but the results were amazing. Lyndsey, will you read Verse 35 for us?

0:45:44.7 LH: "And the Lord spake unto Enoch, and said unto him. Anoint thine eyes with clay and wash them, and thou shalt see. And he did so."

0:45:52.2 TH: What did he have to do? What's the request?

0:45:54.1 LH: Anoint his eyes with clay and wash them?

0:45:58.1 TH: Yeah, right? So bizarre.

0:46:00.3 LH: Yeah.

0:46:00.4 TH: And I wonder if any of us at that point, or in our lives ever been times when you've been asked to do something, you're like, "Why? That just seems so dumb".

0:46:09.9 LH: Yes.

0:46:12.9 TH: Anything come to mind? Does anything come to mind you could share?

0:46:16.0 LH: Yes, so let's involve Shar, but probably about, 11 years ago. That's not bad. But about 11 years ago, we lived in California, and about May or June of that year, I got this really strong prompting that we were supposed to move to Utah, and that was crazy because my husband loved his job, our kids were settled in, we loved our ward and the sunshine.

0:46:44.1 SH: California.

0:46:46.8 LH: Yeah, so I told my husband and he said, "That's crazy" like all those things I listed. And so I said, "Will you just pray about it 'cause I really think we're supposed to go there" and so we did, and we both got this strong confirmation that, Yeah, we were supposed to go. And so he talked to his company and they... I mean, it was miraculous, they agreed to move us to Salt Lake City, let him keep the salary that he made in California, and so we moved to Utah and about two weeks into it, I got this sick feeling like "We're not supposed to be here, we're not supposed to live here", so I told my husband again, I said, "This isn't right" and by that time, he thought I was crazy and he said "Lyndsey... I can't go to my boss now and say "Oh, false alarm". He's like "We live here now and you just gotta suck it up like, but this is where we live" and we... A few months, put offers on 12 to 14 homes, and none of them were accepted, really were great offers and none of them were accepted. And during that stay that my husband got a client up in the Seattle area, and after about a month they offered him basically a strange job. And we prayed, about it and we thought "Yeah, I think we're supposed to go to Washington" and so we came to Washington for the weekend, and within 48 hours had found a home that we loved, put an offer on and it had been accepted. Everything just worked out.

0:48:41.0 LH: So we moved to Washington and we've been here now nearly 11 years, and it has been where we were supposed to be. Our kids have thrived, they have great friends, we love our ward and have lots of opportunities to serve. My husband loves his job, it's just been a huge blessing, and I think... "Why did we have to go to Utah to get to Washington?". Well, if we had never gone to Utah, we never would have come. We never would have had the opportunity to be in Washington. And the time we were in Utah, we lived with Brian and Shar, and that really strengthened our friendship and relationship, and had we never gone there, I don't think that we would have been as close and our kids adore each other, and it's all because Heavenly Father could see this big picture that yeah you're supposed to go to Washington, but you've gotta make a little detour in Utah and become best friends with Shar and make it to Washington, so... Yeah we've been asked to do crazy things.

0:49:15.6 SH: I love that.

0:49:16.2 TH: Oh are you kidding. That was an amazing story Lyndsey, that was such a great story. And I love how you're able to see all along the way, I mean, at the time you weren't... But the hindsight is "Oh, that made total sense", like "I'm so glad that we did what we were prompted to do, even though it didn't make sense".

0:49:31.2 SH: Yeah. In the meantime, you're like "Why are we here? We're just moving again."

0:49:37.3 LH: And I was pregnant, so I was like extra grumpy.

0:49:39.1 TH: You know what Lyndsey, I just have to tell you, as you were speaking your story, oh my gosh, it just taught me something so profound because I heard you say a couple of times that "If we hadn't moved there, we wouldn't have had the experience, and if we hadn't done this then this wouldn't have happened" and right now, I'm applying this to Enoch, because now I'm just having this really cool moment, if he hadn't done what the Lord had asked, if he hadn't exercised his faith and put the mud on his eyes, he wouldn't have had this really amazing spiritual experience, when we're willing to do what is asked. I do believe we can look back and see the blessing, I love how you just reframe the story for me, because it's interesting that the Lord didn't necessarily solve the problem that Enoch had. He asked him to do something totally different, but the result was amazing, and the result is found in Verse 36, as soon as he put the clay on his eyes and washed it away, he had this experience. So Shar, will you read Verse 36 for us?

0:50:39.8 SH: "And he beheld the spirits that God had created, and he beheld also things which were not visible to the natural eye, and from thenceforth came the saying, abroad in the land, a seer had the Lord raised up unto his people."

0:50:52.7 LH: Wow.

0:50:54.6 TH: A seer, highlight that. We have a prophet today who has been sustained and set apart as a prophet, seer and revelator. They are three separate things, and so that is important for us to know that you can be a prophet and not a seer. He was a prophet, but now he became a seer, and so here's Enoch like slow of speech, but boy, he sure can see. So if Enoch hadn't put the clay on his eyes, he might have never been able to have the gift or the ability to see or become a seer, so Lynds, your story again, perfect for me. And here's what a seer is, Shar will you read this quote?

0:51:32.9 SH: "A seer is one who sees with spiritual eyes, he perceives the meaning of that which seems obscure to others, therefore he is an interpreter and clarifier of eternal truth, he foresees the future from the past and the present. In short, he is the one who sees, who walks in the Lord's light with eyes open. A prophet is a teacher of known truth, a seer is a perceiver of hidden truth, a revelator is a bearer of new truth."

0:52:02.2 TH: Oh, did that just give you chills?

0:52:03.5 SH: Yeah, that's a great definition.

0:52:06.3 TH: Oh, I love that. Yes, Look at that again, "A prophet is a teacher of known truth, a seer is a perceiver of hidden truth, a revelator is a bearer of new truth." Oh, that's President Nelson for sure.

0:52:20.0 LH: Oh, for sure.

0:52:21.0 SH: Yeah, that's awesome.

0:52:22.6 TH: Oh, so good, so good. So how cool is that? He does this experience, he's like, "Alright, I'll put the clay on, I'll wash it off, 'cause I love how in the ends, it says, "And he did so... "And then he gets this...

[chuckle]

0:52:34.0 TH: Alright, and then he gets this really cool spiritual experience, and he gets this calling, and so I just wonder how many of us are missing out on really cool spiritual experiences and callings because we're just not doing the thing that just seems silly or stupid or I don't know.

0:52:50.6 SH: Like looking up to the snake and being healed, that story, right?

0:52:55.5 TH: Right. We'll get to that in Numbers.

0:52:57.0 SH: We go that's silly.

0:52:58.8 TH: Come on, or yeah, even the challenge that the prophet gave us that was the last general conference for this year, to find time... Make time for the Lord.

0:53:08.5 SH: Yes.

0:53:08.8 TH: What! I do every Sunday, you know, but I love how he wants it specifically. What does that look like? Carve out some time in your day. Something great will come, guaranteed.

0:53:19.8 SH: That's so true 'cause the prophet does ask us to do things all the time, and it almost seems like, well, I don't know how that applies to me, like I don't know how clay applies to me teaching these people, and the prophet will say, "Set a specific appointment with the temple and go", he has said that in the past, and it's like, "Okay, that doesn't apply to me 'cause I'm busy," or whatever it is that he asks us to do.

0:53:46.7 TH: So just do it 'cause there's something...

0:53:48.6 SH: Just do it.

0:53:49.2 TH: Great, yeah. Yeah, I just have to connect this back to Lyndsey's story, Lyndsey, it was so good because I'm just thinking now, I'm gonna make a prediction.

[laughter]

0:53:58.3 TH: I predict that at the end of this year, if we really do set aside some time for the Lord, like we've been asked by our prophet, then I believe we'll be able to say, "If I hadn't set aside time for the Lord, I would have never", and then fill in the blank. I think it'll be different for everybody, there will be blessings, there just has to be, right? When we do what we are asked, so thank you both of you for that powerful discussion. That was so good. So going back to kind of what we talked about, and I love how we talked about this in the very first episode, that any time you have a spiritual experience, either right before or right after, something negative will happen, Satan will come in, or it will be hard, you'll have a hardship of some kind, and so true to form. This is exactly what happens, Enoch has this spiritual experience, and then look at how the people reacted to him, in fact, you probably don't have to read, what would you imagine when he starts to preach to people? Were the people like, "Oh we love you Enoch." How do you think they...

[laughter]

0:54:54.6 TH: What do you think their response was?

0:54:55.6 SH: "Get out of here, we don't wanna hear this, we're gonna throw rocks at you."

[laughter]

0:55:00.5 TH: Infact look at...

0:55:00.7 SH: "Shoot arrows at you, isn't that the standard like get out of here."

[laughter]

0:55:06.2 TH: Get out of here. In fact look at Verse 37, at the very end. What does it say that all men were? All men were what?

0:55:12.3 LH: Offended.

0:55:13.6 TH: Oh gosh, yes. Why was that big silence?

[laughter]

0:55:18.6 TH: Tell me about that.

0:55:21.8 LH: It just feels like the world is getting more and more wicked and people are further and further from truth, and so everybody's kind of living their own truth these days, and so when you say anything that is like gospel truth, it offends them because it's not in line with their truths.

0:55:44.6 TH: Yeah.

0:55:46.3 SH: Yeah. Everyone's coming from a different direction, and it's just... Everyone can take offense at something.

0:55:50.6 LH: Yeah.

0:55:50.9 SH: Right?

0:55:50.9 TH: Yeah, yeah exactly.

0:55:52.3 SH: Like my kids take offense when they're looking at each other eating cereal in the morning.

[laughter]

0:55:56.7 SH: I'm not kidding. "He's looking at me!"

[laughter]

0:56:00.1 TH: It's totally true.

0:56:01.6 SH: Okay guys, eat your cereal.

0:56:03.0 LH: I know.

0:56:03.5 TH: It is such a pervasive prevalent feeling in the world we're in. And then we have right here in Verse 38, I just love this, it says that "The people who are in high places said to the tent keepers, 'Tarry here, keep the tents. We're gonna go check out this lunatic, this wild man they call him at the inn."

0:56:20.9 LH: Wild man.

0:56:21.7 TH: Yeah, "This wild man that's among us. We've gotta find out what's going on." And then how beautiful that we have Verse 39, which goes right back to Verse 32, because you read this for us Lyndsey where it said, where the Lord said to Enoch, "Go forth and no man shall pierce thee," and now look at Verse 39. Lyndsey, read Verse 39 for us.

0:56:41.0 LH: "And it came to pass when they heard him, no man laid hands on him for fear came on all them that heard him, for he walked with God."

0:56:48.3 TH: Wow. I think it's interesting, and going back to our prophet, he walks with God, definitely. And then let's go to Verse 47, we have to look at how the people reacted to what he said. Shar, read Verse 47.

0:57:02.6 SH: "And as Enoch spake forth the words of God, the people trembled and could not stand in his presence".

0:57:08.5 TH: Okay. So in the next segment, we're gonna find out what it was that Enoch taught and what he said that caused this reaction from the people.

Segment 6

0:57:21.4 TH: Let's go to Moses 6:57 and 58. So here's what we have, we have the genealogy of Adam's posterity that we studied at the very beginning, and it was the testimony of Adam that his children were taught and learned about God and that God loves them and that Jesus loves them. And I love that Enoch then bears testimony of how important this concept of teaching our children. Remember, if you have 900 years left to live, teach love, right? Teach that God loves us. And I think it's so cool how in Verse 57 highlight this, it says, "Wherefore teach it unto your children." So this is Adam speaking to his posterity and Enoch is relating it to these people. And then he says it again in Verse 58, "Therefore I give unto you a commandment, teach these things freely unto your children." Like teach these things freely. And so I asked you guys before we met, if you would please look over Verses 48-68 and tell us, what is it that we're supposed to teach our children freely? What did Enoch tell these people to do and now they're supposed to teach, and now to us? What did you guys mark?

0:58:23.8 LH: Yeah, Verse 52, he teaches them basically the first principles and ordinances of the gospel, right?

0:58:29.6 TH: Perfect. Yes, exactly what that is. I'm just gonna put article faith number four next to that.

0:58:34.7 LH: Nice.

0:58:36.0 TH: Very good. What else did he tell them to teach?

0:58:39.7 SH: Well, then again, in 57, he says, teach repentance. And then in 59-61, I thought this was super interesting, and I wanted to hear what you think about this part Tammy. [laughter]

0:58:51.1 TH: Oh, yes. Let's...

0:58:51.4 SH: 'Cause I love... I just thought it was really great.

0:58:53.7 TH: Read it.

0:58:55.3 SH: Well, I don't wanna read the whole thing, it's pretty long, but he talks about, you know, the fall and how we don't have to have Adam's sin on us, that God forgave that or it wasn't a sin, however you put it, but we do sin because we're here, and so we have to repent. But he's given us the Holy Ghost. And I just love 60, I thought that was super interesting. "For by the water, you keep the commandments, by the Spirit, you're justified and by the blood you're sanctified." I just thought that was such an interesting Verse. I wanna hear your thoughts on that.

0:59:28.0 TH: Okay.

0:59:28.5 SH: Not my thoughts. [laughter]

0:59:30.5 TH: How... Shar, how interesting is it, because you were on the episode last year where we talked about justification and sanctification...

0:59:38.3 SH: Yeah...

0:59:38.4 TH: With [0:59:38.5] ____. Remember?

0:59:38.7 SH: I remember that, yeah.

0:59:39.1 TH: There it is again. You got the same Verse.

0:59:39.6 SH: I know.

0:59:41.8 LH: Okay.

0:59:42.6 SH: See, I just forget what I've learned and I gotta relearn it.

0:59:45.5 TH: Sure, sure, that's why I'm here.

0:59:47.5 SH: Yeah, but then I loved in 61, to me, this is talking about the Holy Ghost. Correct me if I'm wrong.

0:59:53.9 TH: Yeah.

0:59:54.2 SH: But I just love all the things that it tells about the Holy Ghost, and if we can teach those kind of things to our kids about the Holy Ghost and how they can feel it. And how many different aspects of their life it can be in and bless them. And so that's kind of what I was thinking.

1:00:08.3 TH: Oh, I like that you pointed all those out.

1:00:10.0 SH: I lost my train of thought right then.

[laughter]

1:00:13.0 TH: Those are so good, Shar. Well, let's just go to Verse 60. "By the Spirit, you are justified, and by the blood, you are sanctified." So last year in episode 10, Shar, that's the one that you were in with us, we shared a quote by Gerald Lund, where he kinda of explains the idea of justification and sanctification. I just wanted to remind us of this quote, it's so good, he says, "A rough analogy is that of a felon, who goes to prison for his crime. When he is released, he has fully met the demands of the law. He is justified. But he still has the taint of being an ex-convict. He somehow must re-establish the status or relationship he had before his crime." And then I love this quote from Elder Christopherson because he says, "To be sanctified through the blood of Christ is to become clean, pure and holy. If justification removes the punishment for past sin, then sanctification removes the stain or effects of sin."

1:01:04.8 TH: So when we repent, when we're born again, when we're baptized or every Sunday when we partake of the sacrament, we have to think of it like this: The Spirit is what pardons us and removes the punishment. As fully as we can, we have met the demands of justice through the repentance process, but we still have the taint of being a sinner. So it's through the blood of Christ that we're sanctified, like the stain of sin is completely removed. This sanctification then re-establishes the relationship we had with Christ and our heavenly parents before our crime. So again, "By the Spirit, you are justified, and by blood, you are sanctified." So that's what that Verse is talking about.

1:01:44.8 SH: Yeah, I love that. I love that you focused on telling them about baptism.

1:01:48.6 TH: Yeah.

1:01:49.1 LH: Yeah, and I loved the Verse 60 where it said, "For by water, you keep the commandment." It kind of made me think like, yeah, when we get baptized we're keeping that commandment, but it doesn't just stop there. We need Christ and we need to repent continually throughout our lives and take advantage of his atonement.

1:02:07.4 TH: Oh, I love you brought that up.

1:02:09.0 LH: It's not just... Yeah, we don't just... It's not just getting baptized and we're done.

1:02:12.6 TH: Well, and that's when it begins when you're baptized. Oh, I love that you just brought that up, Lyndsey. There's a direct connection between being baptized and now you've gotta start keeping commandments. Awesome, so good. There's a lot in here. In fact, those of you who are reading it, read this and highlight everything that Enoch is teaching these people, because remember, he's saying, and I love how he starts out, he's like, "This is what Adam told me. This is what I was taught, and so I'm gonna teach it to you." And it's causing these people to tremble. They don't like what they're hearing. It's uncomfortable. Because remember, they were once covenant keepers. They once believed in all of this.

1:02:45.4 SH: Yeah.

1:02:46.0 LH: Right.

1:02:46.5 TH: Their hearts have waxed hard and their ears have become dull, and their eyes, they can't see as far as they used to.

1:02:53.4 LH: Yeah.

1:02:54.4 TH: And then he hits them with this first. So turn the page, Verse 63, 'cause it's such a Verse of love. "If they're trembling and if they don't like what they hear, then he says, 'But let me remind you of this.'" It's so good, Lyndsey, will you read that for us?

1:03:10.0 LH: "And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me, both things which are temporal and things which are spiritual, things which are in the heavens above, and things which are in the Earth, and things which are under the Earth, both above and beneath, all things bear record of me."

1:03:26.9 TH: Underline that last part. What is he saying to these people? What is he trying to remind them of?

1:03:35.0 SH: Just reminding them of him. Right?

1:03:37.1 TH: Mm-hmm.

1:03:37.8 SH: And that everything that they enjoy and everything they see and everything they do is because of him.

1:03:42.8 TH: Right, very good. And then let's take it a step further. "All things have their likeness and all things are created and made to bear record of me, including us."

1:03:55.5 LH: Mm-hmm.

1:03:56.9 TH: He's like, "That's why you are here. You have been created to bear record of me." And I think of you, Lyndsey, as a Young Women's president, you are in that position to bear record of Jesus Christ. You were created in his image. "And that all things bear record of me." All Lyndseys will bear record of him. All young women presidents, all organists, all of us in our positions of whatever we have, the goal is to bear record of Jesus Christ, just by being who we are. You don't have to be better.

1:04:25.7 LH: No.

1:04:26.7 TH: Just be us right? We were created... That was... We came to this Earth to bear record of him, and you're the only Lyndsey out there, and you're the only Shar. So how would you do that, right?

1:04:38.1 LH: Yeah.

1:04:38.6 TH: So I want us to go to this talk by Elder Holland, and here's what he has to say about this and about Enoch, 'cause it's so good. So it's a March 18th, 1980 BYU speech that he gave, and it's called "For Times of Trouble". So we're gonna read what he has to say about Enoch, and this is so powerful. So I'll start. "I ask all of you to remember Enoch as long as you live. This is the young man who, when called to a seemingly impossible task, asked, 'Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight? I am but a lad, and all the people hate me for I am slow speech.'"

1:05:12.6 SH: "Enoch was a believer. He stiffened his spine and squared his shoulders and went stuttering-ly on his way, plain old, un-gifted inferior Enoch. And this is what the angels would come to write of him."

1:05:27.0 LH: "And so great was the faith of Enoch that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them, and he spake the word of the Lord, and the Earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command, and the rivers of water were turned out of their course, and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness, and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch, and so great was the power of the language which God had given him."

1:05:51.1 TH: "Plain old, inadequate Enoch, whose name is now synonymous with transcendent righteousness. The next time you are tempted to paint yourself a portrait, dismal gray, highlighted with lackluster beige, just remember the in-like manner have this kingdom's most splendid men and women been tempted. I say to you, as Joshua said to the tribes of Israel, as they faced one of the most difficult tasks, sanctify yourselves, for tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you."

1:06:19.8 SH: That is so beautiful. I love that he said he stiffened his spine and squared his shoulders and went stuttering-ly on his way. Like he just stood up and said, "Well, let's just give this a shot".

[laughter]

1:06:34.9 TH: Yeah.

1:06:35.6 SH: And I...

1:06:35.9 TH: The un-gifted inferior Enoch when you put it in those terms.

1:06:38.2 SH: I feel like I could just put my name in that, right there, plain old un-gifted Shar. Like, I'm not... I'm not trying to just always down around myself, but there's just so often that I feel completely inadequate, completely un-gifted, and... Just lacking in whatever thing I'm trying to accomplish, right? And I just love that Elder Holland said, "Next time you paint yourself in that terrible portrait, self-portrait of however the worst you can imagine of yourself, we are all created from God and we can be made like God." And so I just need to remember to square my shoulders and even if I'm stuttering on the way, just keep going on because it's hard to always believe in yourself. There's a lot in this world that kind of tears you down, I think, and it's... I just wanna have more of a believing attitude. Like you said, Enoch was a believer, and I wanna be more like that.

1:07:42.0 TH: Beautifully said, Shar.

1:07:44.2 LH: Yeah.

1:07:44.9 TH: Thank you. Any thoughts, Lynds?

1:07:47.4 LH: Yeah, I just love that last... In that last paragraph where it said, and what Shar had said that, "Next time you feel like that, remember that so have all the great men and women, like profits and whatnot," and that oftentimes we do look at people and think, "Oh, they would be so good at this," but you know, until you walk in somebody's shoes, you don't know how people are feeling.

1:08:09.9 SH: Yeah.

1:08:10.7 TH: Yeah. Beautifully spoken. I appreciate both of you sharing your experiences today, and it's so relatable to everything we study. Gosh, I just... God is so good and knowing who should be on this. I've loved everything we've talked about. So I want us all just to take a minute and think about this and write a little note in your journal that you were created to bear record of him, even if you feel inadequate. I want you to kinda just write about what the Lord taught you today, because the Lord created you to become great, and I love how in the end he quotes Joshua to sanctify yourselves, for tomorrow the Lord will do wonders. And that sanctification just goes back to first acknowledging what you did was wrong, but then involving Jesus Christ, involving the atonement. Because just like we talked about earlier, how much do we love that Adam told his children, "Yeah, I messed up and God still talk to me. I messed up and God still talk to me." And so no one is removed from the voice of the Father, no one. And so take a minute and just kinda write about that and then think about that this week, and that's our lesson. That's it! That's Moses Chapter 6 and Genesis 5.

1:09:17.8 SH: Those are great.

1:09:18.3 TH: So take a minute ladies, and just kinda gather your thoughts and what is your takeaway from today?

1:09:22.2 LH: Yeah, I loved... When we talked about how God conversed with Adam and with Cain, with everybody. Just... God just is so good and loves us so much, and... I don't know, that was just a good reminder that he wants us to succeed. My favorite quote from President Benson says, "Apart from Christ, no one can succeed, but as a partner with Christ, no one can fail. And God can make a lot more out of our lives than we can." I see that that's true. Heavenly Father and the Savior just love us so much and are just waiting there wanting to help us and want us to succeed. And whether you're the nursery leader or the Young Women's president or the prophet, he loves them all equally and wants them to do their very best. So that's my takeaway, God loves us. You're his favorite.

[laughter]

1:10:22.1 TH: You're his favourite, absolutely. [chuckle] Thank you Lyndsey, that was a great take away. I like that you included everybody, whether you're a prophet, a Young Women's president. Oh, that was good, so good, thank you.

1:10:32.9 SH: Yeah.

1:10:33.2 TH: Shar, what's yours?

1:10:34.5 SH: My takeaway was a little bit about how we talked about what the word Lord God means. I love when you broke that down and it means... This is what I wrote in my Scriptures, "He will cause God to be." I love that, that he is trying to create us to be like him. And then just your challenge for us to write in our journals or whatever, sometimes those challenges go in one ear and out the other for me and I'm like, "Oh, it's a great challenge I'm never gonna write in my journal." [laughter]

1:11:09.8 TH: Sure, sure, great. Thanks a lot Shar. [chuckle]

1:11:11.2 SH: Sorry, I don't mean to sound terrible, but when you said that, it really, really hit me that I needed to actually do that one and write down how I am created to bear record of him. Just really bore testimony to me that I need to write down how I can be a bearer of him and truly become who he wants me to be.

1:11:33.9 TH: Oh, Shar, great takeaway. As you were saying that, I was thinking of people. If anyone's listening who thinks bearing record of him means you have to be perfect, is there any other better way to bear record of him than to be repentant? If you think you are so far beyond the reach and scope of the atonement of Jesus Christ, you're not.

1:11:57.3 SH: Right.

1:11:58.0 TH: Is there any better way to bear record of him than to go through the repentance process and tell people about it? I mean, that was my takeaway, Shar, was when you said, "You are from me, you will become like me." I wrote that next to Lord God. That is exactly it. We are from him and we will become like him. And the only way we can become like him is through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oh, I had that a-ha, thank you.

1:12:22.0 SH: How about that?

1:12:22.3 TH: So good. Well, thank you, ladies. Thanks for joining me. What a great day.

1:12:25.8 SH: Oh, that was awesome.

1:12:26.6 LH: Thank you.

1:12:27.0 TH: Lyndsey, you were beautiful.

1:12:28.3 SH: Thank you.

1:12:29.2 LH: Oh, thank you. It was really good fun.

1:12:31.2 TH: Those were such powerful takeaways. Oh my gosh. I am anxious to find out what your takeaway is from this episode. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do that. It's also a great place to ask questions throughout the week, if you have any, or just post what you're learning when you learn it. I think that is so fun to read even earlier on than on Sunday. And then every Sunday, we do post asking what your takeaway was, so comment on the post that relates to this lesson to let us know what you've learned. And then on Monday, I always just talk about one that stood out to me. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. And it's not a bad idea to go there because that's where we're gonna have all of the quotes we used today, as well as the references, and a transcript of this entire discussion, so go check that out.

1:13:18.2 TH: Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our so fabulous study group participants were Sharmaine Howell and Lyndsey Howell. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Erica Free. It is recorded and mixed by Mix At 6 Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We will see you next week. And please remember that you bear record of him and you are his favorite.

1:13:53.3 SH: Am I too nasally? I feel like when I hear myself on the podcast, I'm like, "Oh, crap, I sound like that?" [chuckle] I could try to talk like this a little better.

1:14:03.8 TH: There you go. I can't wait for you to pick up the Irish accent, like you said. [chuckle]

1:14:07.2 SH: I know, I always do Lyndsey, I hear you. [chuckle]

1:14:09.9 TH: And certainly, Shar is from Ireland. [chuckle]

1:14:12.1 LH: Love it. [laughter]

1:14:15.1 SH: Oh, dear, love you.

1:14:17.1 LH: Oh, dear love.

[laughter]

1:14:18.5 TH: That's awesome. Oh, dear love you. I'm gonna pick it up, geez. [chuckle] Okay.