40: “He Hath Borne Our Griefs, and Carried Our Sorrows” (Isaiah 50–57)

Tammy 0:01

Beauty, majesty, rejected, rejoice, maligned, exalted and joyful. Those are the words I would use to sum up this week's lesson. Isaiah 50-57 is all of those words, and it is a privilege to go over these chapters with you. And especially with my guests today; I can't wait for you to meet them. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, we just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast, so please follow the link that's in our description. And it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my friends Dale and Fawnette Garner in Hawaii. Aloha friends. Thanks for listening.

Tammy 0:52

Now, another awesome thing and my favorite thing about this study group is that each week we are joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today, I'm so excited for you to meet my guests. We have Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt and Anne Madson. Hi, ladies.

Tammy 1:07

Hello.

Tammy 1:09

Now Jen, it's good to have you back. I always love having you on and your insights. Jennifer is a professor up at BYU Idaho in the department of religion. She's amazing, she knows her stuff. And I called her and said, Okay, I want you to be on the podcast. And then I said, Who should we have on with us? Like, we threw out names and everything was like, Oh, I don't know, I don't know. But then she said this name. And the spirit was like, that is who should be the person on the podcast! Jen, who is it?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:35

It's Ann; it's Ann Madsen.

Tammy 1:38

Tell us about Anne.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:38

You know what? Ann has d my life in so any ways. I think about her every time I go to the Temple, and Ann, I think I've told you this. She did, remember talk tapes? She did a talk tape once and I remember sitting in the parking lot at the San Diego Temple listening to this and waiting to get to this one part where she always talked about when she was welcomed to the Temple, that then she would then whisper and welcome the name of the person she was doing the work for. And that's become a rutual of mine. Well, imagine my joy when I get to Provo to teach, and my class is after Anne's and we get to be friends. And I, it was the only time I was early was when I knew I was going to get to see Ann and get a big hug from her and to just check in, to see how she's doing. So Anne is a treat, she's a life-changer.

Anne Madsen 1:39

Oh, my goodness, my funeral. (laughter)

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:46

No, it's not,

Tammy 1:46

It's not at all. Anne, tell us a little bit about yourself 'cuz our guests don't know you. What should they know?

Anne Madsen 2:49

Oh my goodness, l'm long lived so I'll have to be brief. In a few weeks, I'll be 90 years old. I've taught at BYU since 1976. I got my Master's degree in '75 in Ancient Studies, and with a minor in Hebrew. I always was in love with the way Hebrew looked on a page. What's really most important is that I raised four children, three of them by birth from birth, and one of them a Navajo son, foster son, who was with us 11 years all the time he grew up. And I have 16 grandchildren and 48 great grandchildren, with one expected in November, so it'll be 49. And I'm wondering about 50. And when babies come - my husband died 13 years aga, Truman Madsen - and when these little great grandchildren arrive and they put them in my arms, I always whisper to every one of them that I first meet, What did Baba tell you to tell me? And they don't say anything and they just smile. And that's good enough.

Anne Madsen 4:11

I'm happy. I have occasionally said in my morning prayer: Heavenly Father, I'm positive I'm the happiest of all Your daughters. I used to say that when Truman was alive, because he was the love of my life. But, and I thought I'll never be saying that again. And then I was kneeling one morning when I could still kneel. And I felt like I was in the temple. And suddenly I said, Oh Heavenly Father, I am the happiest of Your daughters today. Well, maybe not the happiest but at least as happy as Your happiest daughter. And I realized I could be happy all by myself, more or less. But without my husband always telling me I was his beautiful wife, and that I could do anything. Anyway, I'm being too long-winded. So

Tammy 5:07

Well Jen and I are sobbing right now, wiping tears from our eyes. I hope that everyone listening can feel what we're feeling right now. Like, I feel like we're in a sacred space. Your suggestion, Jennifer was spot on. It was supposed to be Anne, and she is a Hebrew scholar and Isaiah scholar, let's be clear about that. Anne has written books on Isaiah. And so I could not be more thrilled to have the two of you join me today for this discussion.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 5:35

Well, we're proud to be here.

Anne Madsen 5:35

Thanks, Tammy

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 5:38

Yeah, thank you

Tammy 5:40

Ahhh. Well, if you want to know more about my guests and see their pictures, you can find their bios in our show notes which are found at LDSLiving.com/Sunday on Monday. So go check those out. So one of the things I mentioned last week is, in my home, we have been working through anxiety. And let me tell you, anxiety is a very real thing. Do either of you have anxiety? Or have you experienced it before?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 6:12

Yeah.

Tammy 6:13

What does it feel like?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 6:14

This is a new phenomenon for me, and my mother passed about six months ago. And it stirred things that I didn't know existed. But anxiety was one of them that I've come to terms with. For me, it's almost constant heart palpitations; it's tension, it's really uncomfortIt's physical, it's physical for me, as much as it is emotional and mental. It's the whole soul.

Anne Madsen 6:43

For me, I really felt anxiety for years. I have a feeling of, especially since my husband Truman died, I have felt a sense of well-being and peace that I have never known before. And I'd have glimpses of it, but I had never really understood how peaceful my life. A piece that truly passes understanding. I mean, it makes no sense. I do have to agree, though, that when he died, I learned in a way I hadn't when my parents each died or my brother, I learned that you must grieve. And it is physical, as well as emotional. And I found myself crying my heart out, but when I was alone, only when I was alone. I'd hear my son say to someone, Oh, she's amazing. She's doing so well. And I'd think, What are you talking about?

Tammy 7:49

No, I'm not. Yeah, oh, that's funny

Anne Madsen 7:51

Yeah. But I never, I have the feeling that the Lord loves the widows and the fatherless.

Tammy 7:59

Well, thank you. And I appreciate your words, and what you just taught us. And Anne and Jennifer, I appreciate that you shared with us that you've kind of experienced feelings of anxiety. And the reason I brought that up because I thought this was so interesting, is Nephi's brother in the Book of Mormon, I call him 'the anxiety Prophet', because he uses that word often in his writings, and he felt a lot of anxiety. But I think that one of his coping mechanisms might have been using the words of Isaiah because he quotes Isaiah so often. And in the Book of Mormon, Jacob includes Isaiah 50-52. And so I think there's something to these chapters today as we study them, that there might be some way for us to cope with feelings that we have when we're anxious. And I just thought that they were so beautiful in here, especially in 2 Nephi 9:3 he says,

Tammy 8:48

2 NE 9:3 "Behold, my beloved brethren, I speak unto you these things that ye may rejoice, and lift up your heads forever, because of the blessing which the Lord God shall bestow upon your children."

Tammy 9:00

And that will come by way of Isaiah 50-52. In the next segment, we're going to jump into the words of Isaiah. And hopefully, by the end of this episode, we will be able to rejoice and lift up our heads forever, and recognize the blessings of the Lord God. And we've talked about that this year, and we're going to see it a lot in Isaiah chapter 50. And if you remember, the phrase, "Lord God" in Hebrew translates as "He will cause gods to be." I want you to be thinking about that, because these chapters have to do with us and what He will cause us to be because of our Savior, Jesus Christ. So we'll do that coming up next.

Segment 2 9:34

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Tammy 9:35

So let's look at the section heading for Isaiah chapter 50. It begins by stating that Isaiah speaks as the Messiah. Now this struck me because it is the only reference I could find with Isaiah speaking as the Messiah. Highlight that in the section heading, highlight 'as he speaks as the Messiah.' This is so amazing to me. So I asked my guests to come prepared to share examples that they could find of this in Isaiah chapter 50. Where is Isaiah speaking as the Messiah? What did you guys come up with?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 10:05

For me, I was captured with the questions. Did you notice the questions over and over? And I just went through and even the cat., they got my attention. And so I went through and I marked all the questions first.

Tammy 10:18

Oh, that's so good. Give us an example.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 10:21

Okay. So we get the 'bill of the divorcement.' Or 'have I put thee away', right? it starts there. But I want to jump down to the verse 2 where it says, "Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? "That he's again, just saying, I want to show you who I am. And what I meant to be for you. "When I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver?" And I can go on and on with these questions. But it's taken me back to the beginning with Adam and Eve. "Adam, where art thou?" And the Lord's question, and the brilliance of a question, that even when we see, you know, Nephi, and the vision, and Elder Bednar has taught us about this. That the question is engaging agency. For me, then, to be able to say, What is my relationship to You? Who are You for me? And to have to process and think, I want to answer the question.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 11:25

I think one of the keys to Isaiah is to read him out loud. And even if I read those questions to you, that as I've been processing and pondering this, but to make it oral, and to hear it, and to have my brain receive it? I know who He is. I know He is the only one; He is the key to me returning to the Father. And so, the questions.

Tammy 11:55

Oh, my gosh. have never done that in this chapter before. And I love that you just brought that up, because now I'm looking at 'em like, all the questions. I mean, I'm struck with the question in verse 10,

Tammy 12:05

"Who is among you that feareth the LORD. that obeyeth the voice of his servant?" I mean, "that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let" - and then I love how He gives the answer - "let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God." I mean, that is really cool. The power of questions. And here's an example of the Lord using that. To call us into question, basically, like, where do we stand? How are we doing? Oh, I really liked that, Jennifer. Oh, that's good.

Anne Madsen 12:32

I do too, Jennifer, for my goodness, you know, I sort of did the same thing. And I was thinking of Alma chapter five, which to think compared to where he asks, Have you received his image in your countenance? And you know, there are all these rhetorical questions, questions that you can answer silently, but in your head. You already know the answer to most of them.

Tammy 13:00

Thank you, Anne. I appreciate your input on that. And Jen, to your point, I like how you said to read these questions out loud, because it reminds me of seminary teaching 101. I remember one of the first lessons they teach you, Boyd K Packer taught: When a student asks a question, the Spirit enters the room. In fact, I think his quote is: "The moment a student asks a question, the Spirit enters the room." And so if you're reading Isaiah, chapter 50 out loud, who's the student? It's me. And if I'm reading these questions out loud, I'm really sincerely asking them, I think that there's so much power in that, then, in having us ask these questions and think on them. So I'm grateful you pointed that out.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 13:40

We, the other day with our little kids, we have little kids six and eight. And then Come, Follow Me - I don't even remember where we were - but I had this prompt to read them the temple recommend questions. Oh, it was in Psalms, about The House of the Lord and I got the right temple recommend questions out. And again, I don't offer those questions to other people, I receive them. But here I am reading them aloud to little children, one who's baptized but the other who's not. And their response is that, Of course, we love Heavenly Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost mommy, of course we do. And I said, listening to that, and even as we go through this, that feeling of devotion and allegiance to Him. And that, of course, I love him. And of course, He's come to redeem me.

Tammy 14:32

Yeah. Oh, that's powerful. Now I think it's interesting going back to how we ended the first segment, the word 'Lord God'. Because Jen, now that you put this in this idea that Jesus is asking these questions, because Isaiah's speaking as the Messiah. How powerful when you go into verse 9, "Behold, the Lord GOD will help me." Like, the Lord God will help Jesus to become a God, like He will cause gods to be and now I'm looking at all the times it says, Lord GOD in here. The Savior using that phraseology 'Lord GOD', he knows why He's here and what He's about to do. And what He will do throughout His ministry. Like He is going to become a God.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 15:11

I'm so glad you said that, because that's exactly where, as soon as you said that, I took a green pen, and marked that phrase, 'Lord GOD'. And so I'm, and I've got marked there, right, that this is a servant's song. And to seen this then, and to ask, and I was going to ask you that question. So thank you for doing that. Because I was thinking, Now wait, this is Christ's becoming. This is the, this is the Promised Messiah. And this is His becoming. Oh, yeah. Thank you for answering that. Because I was really intrigued with what you taught us and, and to look at that phrase and to think about the becoming of a god.

Tammy 15:49

Yeah.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 15:50

Ohoo, cool.

Tammy 15:51

Cool. Wow. Well, thank you, ladies. Thank you for sharing those words out of Isaiah chapter 50. So what we're gonna do now is, we just read about Isaiah speaking AS the Messiah, and in the next segment, we're gonna see where Isaiah speaks ABOUT the Messiah. We'll do that next.

Segment 3 16:09

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Tammy 16:11

So ladies, jump in. Tell me what verses you marked that stand out to you where Isaiah speaks ABOUT the Messiah. We'll start with you, Anne.

Anne Madsen 16:19

OK. I'm going to read from the NIV, because that version of the translations of the Bible gets closer to the original Hebrew. Whose appearance is beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness. The JSTchanges verse 15 to read: "So will he gather many nations, gather or sprinkle. Kings shall shut their mouths, because of him, from many nations, but what they have not heard. They will understand, I think, and I guess I would go on with who has believed our message - 53:1, "and to whom is the arm of the Lord been revealed?" And the answer continues, "He grew up like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground." How does this describe Jesus? He was nothing in his appearance that we should desire, No beauty or majesty to attract us to. Notably He was despised, or rejected, and familiar with suffering, and literally, one from whom men hide their faces. And note how we are drawn into the narrative at the end of verse 3. "He was despised, and we esteemed him not." He changed pronouns there. HE, and then WE.

Tammy 17:59

Wow, well, and thank you for beginning with Isaiah 52:14-15. Because you actually taught us this during the break, and we didn't have it recorded, so I'm just going to reiterate thi. That those verses actually begin Isaiah 53. This is so cool. And we learned from Don Perry, that this happens occasionally in the book of Isaiah, because there were really no actual markers for where chapters began and end. So that was awesome. Thank you so much. And then the WE and HE. Like, I've never looked at pronouns before in Scripture, and that was cool. It just reads beautifully when you connect those words to it. That was awesome, thank you so much.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 18:36

I love the way Anne brought us, like the way you said it, I wrote it down. Look at the pronoun change. I'm joined in the narrative. Because for me, Isaiah 53 has always pressed me to address my expectations. And I think this is very much what the Jews who knew him had to do - is address expectation of who the Messiah is for us. This is ugly. This is painful, it's messy, and I have a part in it? To think that esteemed him not? That we like sheep, in verse 6 of chapter 53, have gone astray? We have turned every one to his own way. And the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 19:32

And, you know, I like people to like me. You know, I read that and I think, I think I look at someone that I was trying to help and if they weren't receptive to it, I turn my nose to 'em and walk away. And it shows the godliness, the divine in Him that I'm trying to grow in me. That for me, that natural woman in me that wants to snuff, where He's saying, 'No. I am in this and I'm all the way into it.' And how we learn, you know, that it pleased - verse 10 - "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him". That it was vital and necessary and essential. And so, what does that tell me then about my own expectations for my own life and my own messiness ? That if I really want to bexomw like him, it's gonna get ugly. There's going to be those moments where I'm, where I am rejected, where I'm sorrowful, where I'm grieved, where I'm wounded. But the only healing, I'm despised, I'm rejected. But because He's made an offering for my sin, in verse 10, I can be one with Him.

Anne Madsen 20:58

I appreciate what you just said that was so true. You made me cry. And I want to point out again, the pronouns, or that He took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows. I think the picture that in your mind, He takes up our burden, and takes it off our shoulders, or with Alma's people, the burdens were lightened. And then our peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. I'm just talking about Isaiah 53:5-6. And then to emphasize our need, "we all like sheep have gone astray".

Anne Madsen 21:51

In the Judean in wilderness, every spring - I lived there for several years in Jerusalem, - we would go out to the Judean wilderness, the hills, where sheep have made many paths, so that each individual could go in his or her own way. It speaks to our freedom to act, to make choices. It also speaks to hills out there. And spring and summer are covered with beautiful colored flowers that fade. And they, the scriptures talk about that. But I was out there. And they had already turned to summer where everything has faded and it's a wilderness, it's like a desert. And there were this huge flock of sheep, each of them going a different path. It was - and I took pictures of it - so I could explain to my students that they do that; they spread out. They've got a, you know, there's some behind others, but they're choosing which way to go. And they're at least 12 paths across always. So anyway.

Tammy 23:07

Oh my goodness, K, that was really cool. I can't write fast enough. I'm sorry. You two, you've got to slow down. I'm writing so many notes from the both of you. That was so good. I can't believe how much I just learned about Isaiah speaking ABOUT the Messiah. So thank you, thank you. I have so many takeaways already. So we've done Isaiah speaking AS the Messiah, we have done Isaiah speaking ABOUT the Messiah, and then in the next segment, we get to read FROM the Messiah. So, we're gonna do that next.

Segment 4 23:41

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Tammy 23:44

If you have your Book of Mormon, turn to 3 Nephi chapter 22. Because something that says Isaiah chapter 54, apart from all other Isaiah chapters, is that the Savior quotes all of Isaiah 54 to the Nephites, all of it, in its entirety, word for word. I mean, can you just imagine the Savior quoting you? I'm wondering if Isaiah was like, Hey, he's quoting me. So we're gonna jump into Isaiah chapter 54. And there are some weird words in here. You read this, and you're like, what are we talking about? 54:1 says,

Tammy 24:14

54:1 "Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord."

Tammy 24:25

I mean, that right there it's like, what do these means? I want you to mark a couple of these words. When we have the word 'child' in there, that's referring to those who are, have the blessings of the covenant. Those are covenant keepers, the desolate are non-covenant keepers right here. But there's something beautiful about this idea where the Lord uses a barren woman and a married wife. And I've asked Anne to specifically address what we're talking about here by being barren, and how we become married to Christ. Because in verse 5 we will be married to him. And that's another thing that's really hard for us. Wait, we're married to Jesus? Yes, we are. And so Anne's going to explain these to us.

Anne Madsen 25:05

Oh my goodness, it's hard to know how to begin. But in Isaiah 54, the barren woman is prominent. In fact, that's who He 's speaking about. And you have to ask yourself, why is it in the Book of Mormon? Why is it in 35:22? Yeah, I think you need to say to yourself, like with so many of the symbols and metaphors in Isaiah. in fact, I think he needs to do this all the way through the book. What does he mean barren woman. He's obviously, it's a metaphor. What for? Who is the metaphor about? And I think it's about the restoration in our time, which is what makes it so relevant for us to read and understand. And so if you think of it, our time as 'the tent', which in Middle Eastern, both Arab and Jewish society, they have a hospitality that they all share.

Anne Madsen 26:12

I mean, you can be anyplace. And if you're in somebody's tent, they are responsible for your safety, even though they'd be your enemy. If they're your enemy, and they're in your tent, or what they call your DERA, - if you're a wandering nomad like Abraham was, then you're responsible for them, and you die taking care of them. That reminds you of the story of Abraham, when the three come to him, and he's been out looking for a stranger to take care of, and they come, and he takes them directly in. And so the 'enlarging of the tent', the door's stretched wide in welcome. The increased length and strength of the chords and stakes. You know, I don't want you to have this tent, I want you to enlarge every part of it. And I always find it fascinating to think of stakes spelled like stakes. And that's, I mean, so you don't have to wonder what the metaphor is in that case, it's us. And anyway, and you need to strengthen the stakes, and you need to strengthen the ropes. They need to be bigger and thicker, the cords. You strengthen everything about it.

Anne Madsen 27:36

And that's what we need to be doing, as President Nelson has said. We can't live on borrowed time, on borrowed testimony. All we can do is strengthen ourselves, and hear Him, and listen, and all. He says so many things better for our time, just like Isaiah 54. For other childbirth, or child rearing images in Isaiah's writing, see Isaiah 13:8. Moroni also uses this imagery in a partial quotation of Isaiah 54 just before concluding the Book of Mormon. "........awake, and arise from the dust, O Jerusalem". Now apply this to you today. How do we awake and arise and why are we coming from dust? "O,Jerusalem; yea, and put on thy beautiful garments, O daughter of Zion". He uses the metaphor of daughters of Zion, like, when I was praying, happy to be a daughter, the happiest daughter. "and strengthen thy stakes and enlarge thy borders forever, that thou mayest no more be confounded, that the covenants the Eternal Father, which he hath made unto thee, O house of Israel, may be fulfilled."

Anne Madsen 29:08

I was reading from Moroni 10:31, and Moroni's quotation also includes the phrases from Isaiah 52:1. Paul the Apostle compares to barren woman to Abraham's wife Sarah, who bore Isaac as a barren woman late in her life. And bore a child who became the righteous heir. Are these metaphors referring to the restored Church, which began from few and multiplied to many? What does 'more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband' mean? See, Galatians 4:26-27. And this is another quote from the Galatians:

Anne Madsen 29:58

GAL 4:26-27 "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Anne Madsen 30:04

"27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that barest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:" (and travailleth stands for labor). "for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband."

Anne Madsen 30:24

See all of Galatians 4. Does all of this enlarging the place of your tent, portend the promises given to Abraham and Sarah, and their multitude of children, whose numbers rival the sand of the seashore and the stars of the heavens?Being barren was a cultural stigma in biblical times. Does widowhood mean only lacking a husband? 54:5, see Hosea, for the same metaphor that calls the husband your maker, and identifies him as the Lord Almighty. And further, as the Holy One of Israel. He is your Redeemer, he is called the God of all the earth. And then it says he will call you back, as if you were a wife deserted.

Anne Madsen 31:23

A wife, a wife who married young, only to be rejected for being barren. In those days, if you were barren as a woman, and you were taken to wife, and you went through the ceremony, and you never bore children, or at least it seemed as you were never going to, as it must have with Sarah, then you were rejected by the husband. And by the law of Moses, and by the ancient traditions of the land, you can be given back to your father, and he would be every, every woman needed to have someone protect her, her brothers, as we learn in the brothers of Dinah destroyed Shechem.

Tammy 32:11

I'm struck by what you just taught us, because I didn't realize that; that if you couldn't have a child, the husband could bring you back -the wife - to her father and say, that is shocking to me that he would break off the engagement. But now it gives so much more power to verse one when he's saying, "Sing, O barren, thou that did not bear." Like not all hope is lost. I think that is really powerful now, like you couldn't have children, but it's okay. It's all going to work out. But specifically, verse 2, when you taught us "Enlarge the place of thy tent", that traditionally was the woman's responsibility. And when people would marry into the family or tribe, the women would weave out of goats hair another piece of that tent that you would then add on, to make the tent bigger so that people could live with you. You didn't send them with their own tent; they would live in your tent. And so,

Anne Madsen 33:02

in fact, that's who he's speaking about. And you have to ask yourself, why is it in the Book of Mormon? Why is it in 3 Nephi 22? And this is why I think it is there. This barren woman, springing triumphantly from the servant's redeeming act in Isaiah 53, - let's say Christ's redeeming act in Isaiah 53 - rejoices with the promise of many children, against all expectations. She's barren.

Tammy 33:39

We have all this marriage metaphor, but it is for us today. Like, single, barren, enlarge your tent. We're talking about the gathering. But then verse 5: "For thy Maker is thine husband". So will you please tell us, we read often in Scripture that Jesus Christ is our husband. How does He become our husband? That might be weird for a lot of people?

Anne Madsen 34:01

Well, I think there are many things that it could mean. My notice of Hosea for the same metaphor, calling 'the Maker', which really means 'the husband'. And probably, I don't know, Hebrew, but it probably was something like BAAL, or something, 'your husband'. And he identifies him as Lord Almighty, Holy One of Israel, Redeemer. All of those things would be what a husband in their culture would be responsible for. The daughter comes back if she's barren, that's just one example. But he's responsible for her and other, or her husband becomes responsible for her when he takes her. That's the covenant that they make. And

Tammy 34:58

Oh, so it's through covenant

Anne Madsen 35:00

I think and I think, notice verse 9 & 10, actually, that the Lord reiterates the worth of covenant. He says, for in the days of Noah that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So now I have swore never to be angry with you again. He says in verse 10, quote, and I'm reading now from the NIV, "Though the mountains be shaken, and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken and nor my covenant of peace be removed, sayeth the Lord, who has compassion on you." He is not kicking you out; the Lord who has compassion on you. I just think that's phenomenal. It is. And that kind of covenant that the Lord makes with us is reflected in a marriage covenant. It's what we're trying to become. "That they may be one as we are one", you know. All the scriptures that talk about unity and oneness, I think the temple makes it so clear that it's a place where we make covenants that eventuate in our oneness. When my husband died, the last words I said to him were - he had drawn his last breath - and I said, I had hold his hand and I said, "Don't worry, sweetheart. We're sealed forever." And it was the one comforting thought I had at that moment. So

Tammy 36:47

Anne, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that experience. And thank you for teaching us about Isaiah 54. Wow, she knows her stuff, Jen.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 36:58

Yes, she knows her stuff.

Tammy 37:00

Oh, that was beautiful. Thank you so much. And when you read Isaiah 54:9-10, Anne, I was struck with the image of the Savior saying this to the Nephites, who were wicked, and many were destroyed right before Christ came to visit them. And now He's saying, I am not wroth with thee. Like, I now, you guys, this is amazing, because I now understand why He repeated Isaiah 54. He's reminding or He's teaching them that through covenants they are married to Him and he's not going to give them back, even though they didn't produce a child. Like, I love this, this going back to verse 1. This, these covenant keepers. Oh, I love this imagery. I could do this for hours talking about Isaiah 54. So thank you, thank you so much. So in the next segment, we're going to cover this idea of enlarging, stretching, sparing not, and lengthening chords. And we're going to talk about Isaiah 51 and 52.

Segment 5 37:22

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Tammy 37:43

So we're gonna go back to Isaiah chapter 51 and 52. And Anne beautifully taught us from Isaiah 54:2, so here's how it all connects. Verse 2 says,

Tammy 38:06

54:2 "Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations; spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes."

Tammy 38:15

And you know, it's so cool. She's right. I think it's so cool how in Moroni, chapter 10 Moroni is talking. He's saying he doesn't have a lot of room left on the plates, right? And he knows his life is going to be taken. Then all of a sudden, he just does this: he just inserts real quick, 'Oh, by the way, enlarge the place of the tent. He gives us this metaphor. And this whole metaphor is about gathering. He's saying to us as readers today, You're going to need to gather. And then we have this awesome Prophet, where he has just been continually encouraging us to gather together. And we shared this quote last week, but we just have to do it one more time. The Prophet says, "Nothing else compares in magnitude, nothing else compares in importance, nothing else compares in majesty." Then he says, "If you choose to, if you want to, you can be a big part of it. You can be a big part of something big, something grand, something majestic." And he said that to the youth in 2018 at the Worldwide Devotional.

Tammy 39:12

So I want this to go into a verse that is entirely about this gathering and how we can participate in this. Let's go to Isaiah chapter 52. And we're going to sort two verses: verses 6 & 7. And Jen, will you read these verses for us, please.?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 39:26

You betcha.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 39:27

52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 39:37

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publiseh peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!"

Tammy 39:52

Thank you. That is how we gather right there, verses 6 & 7. I just think it's incredible how we will speak His name, we will publish peace, but the key to this is the beginning of verse 7: "How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him". Now this phrase right here is so cool. It is found six times in Scripture. That phraseology "how beautiful". I want you to mark the word 'beautiful' in there. This is a really interesting Hebrew word. This word is NA'AH. Now there're other words for beautiful. In fact, I laugh because one of the words for beautiful in Hebrew is YAFEH And for those of you who speak Spanish, 'ugly' in Spanish is Fe, like feya. Or if it's an ugly girl, she's feya. So now every time I think of Yafeh, I think 'she's pretty ugly'. It's beautiful and ugly combined those two words. So that's how you say beautiful in Hebrew Yafei. But this beautiful is a different word. It is NAAH.

Tammy 40:52

And how cool is this, you guys. That word is a verb, it's not an adjective. It's not a way to describe anything. So it's saying how beautiful upon the feet, it's something we will become. Because we're gathering, because of the work we're doing. In fact, there's a very common word that we are very familiar with. This is where we get the name Nauvoo and Nauvoo is translated in Hebrew as 'they will become beautiful,' because they are publishing peace, because they are in the gathering. Here's what Don Perry has to say about this specific verses in the gathering. I think this is pretty great. Jen, will you read these again, for us too.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 41:33

"The singular pronoun Him may refer specifically to Christ, the ultimate source of the gospel's good news. In addition, all those who preach the gospel are beautiful because of the wonderful message they take to others. By the Lord's definition, 'mountains' describes the places where the gospel is preached, regardless of the actual physical location in the world. As we read in Latter-Day revelation, 'Thou shalt declare glad tidings, yea, publish it upon the mountains, and upon every high place, and among every people that thou shalt be permitted to see.'"

Tammy 42:11

Thank you. So when you look at these verses, and if you've ever wondered, Well, how can I participate in the gathering? For me, it boils down to this, and who doesn't want to be more beautiful, right? I mean, think about how cool to become more beautiful, just by bringing good tidings, publishing good,publishing salvation. And let me ask you this question: How in you in your own life have done that? How do you publish salvation? That's a big ask, right? Big job. Give us some examples of how you can publish salvation, publish peace and good tidings?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 42:43

I think it goes back to expectations again, right? Because what do we, I mean certainly salvation is returning to the presence of God. But it's saving people incrementally. Certainly it's getting them to the waters of baptism and helping them navigate the covenant path. But how often is there just that nudge of reach out to that person? And I think we've each had those experiences, right, where you had the prompt, and you've made the call, or you've texted, or you've dropped at the door. And, they said, You're just what I needed. And it saves them. It saves them. I think it's giving moments of hope. It's connecting in His work. It's being focused on that; it's prioritizing it, that it's about saving, and sometimes it's about saving ourselves from ourselves, right?

Tammy 43:44

Yeah. Well, and I'm drawn to this idea that an taught us, including our enemies, like they're going to be in that tent with us. Ah, that's uncomfortable. But I appreciate how you said 'ourselves.' And I also appreciate that it wasn't about non-members, either. It was about saving people who, who do believe in Christ. Everybody needs our help, everyone needs saving. So that was great, Jen. Thoughts from you, Anne. Do you have anything about how you publish salvation?

Anne Madsen 44:17

I do. When I was teaching a class at BYU a few years ago, we came to chapter 66. And like you sometimes do, I underlined every time it said a word that kept coming up. And it was 'glory'. And so how do you spread glory? And He says, I'm gonna send people out. It's about us, because we are all over the world. So I stopped, and I said, "And I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. And in that light, there were two personages whose brightness and glory defy all description." And I say to that class sitting in front of me, "how many of your are eturned missionaries?" And when you teach Isaiah you've got almost all returned missionaries. They raise their hands. And I say, was that familiar to you what I just said. And they all say of course, you know, that's first or second discussion. And I say, "And you taught those people of His glory, that defied all description. And you were doing it all over the world. And this Scripture, at least partly describes you, what you were doing.

Tammy 45:46

That's a great example. I am grateful and that you shared that about sharing glory, because I said, How do you publish salvation, and that's how we do it. We share His glory and talk about it. So thank you to both of you for what you shared. So think about that. Every time you're doing God's work you are becoming beautiful. And wow, we, everyone's, you're beautiful, and you're beautiful. We are a beautiful people. And I just think that is so cool. So what we're going to do then, is in the next segment, we're gonna read some pretty incredible words about who gets to come to this tent. And we've talked a lot about it. We've mentioned that Jesus loves everyone, and everyone's welcome. But we are going to put those words to the test. And we're going to do that next.

Segment 6 46:25

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Tammy 46:26

All right, Jen. I am so excited for you to teach this, we are going to turn to Isaiah chapter 55. And Jen is going to teach us about 55 and 56. And these are so great. Oh my gosh, I love these chapters. So Jen, what do you got?

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 46:41

Okay. So the first thing I want us to do is just capture two words from the chapter headings. The first one is in chapter heading for 55. And it's the word salvation. And it's what it's telling us is salvation is free. But I just want us to capture the word salvation. And we've talked about that, right? Then we've spent some time going through salvation, but then flip over and chapter 56, we get the word exalted. And there's some connecting here, right? Salvation is free, and all who keep the commandments will be exalted.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 47:15

Now, and then I want us to go and take a minute with the Handbook of Instruction. And I think for a long time we thought this was a 'sealed portion'. And that people, only certain people could read it. But it's now published in the Gospel Library app. It's accessible to every one of us. And in chapter 1.2, it starts "the work of salvation and exaltation." A year ago, I was called to be the Stake Relief Society President. I had just made this plan, this strategy of how to simplify my life. I was going to do far less, I was going to be less busy, and I then had this prompt. I was, my husband andI were talking and just out of my mouth - in fact, you guys, it was a year ago, today - that I turned to my husband. and I said, "I don't know that I'm ready to be the stick Relief Society President. " And he goes, "Well, what made you say that?" Like, I don't know, I don't know why I said that. Well, two days later I got a phone call to meet with the stake president.

Tammy 48:14

Oh, my goodness,

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 48:15

And, and I got on my knees. And I said, Okay, verify it. And He said Yup. And I said, I, I just told You I'd like to simplify my life. And this doesn't sound like the way to do that. But I'd like to know what You want me to do with this. And the Spirit whispered, "You're engaged in the work of salvation and exaltation." Now, I'm pretty linear and I like things really clear. And so I had to wrestle with it a little bit. That Sunday, two days later, I met with, after that I met with the stake president, he asked me, "Do you know why you're here?" And I said, "Yes". And he said, "Do you want to say it?" I said, "No, because I want to be wrong." And he extended the call. And I said, "Just assure me, is this God's will?" And he said, "Yeah, you're called of God." And I presented to him my counselors. I was ready, it needed to be expedient, we had to go.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 49:12

But here's the point that I'm wanting to make, cuz you asked that question, Tammy. You said, how have you engaged in the work of salvation? or something like that. And I had to smile because this is how the Lord has simplified my life. He's said, Your work is the work of salvation and exaltation to all. And when we look at 1.2 of the Handbook, as we come unto Christ and help others do the same, we participate in God's work of salvation and exaltation. This work is guided by the two great commandments to love God and to love our neighbors. We show our love for God as we keep His commandments and serve His children. The work of salvation and exaltation focuses on four divinely-appointed responsibilities, and those are: to live the gospel of Jesus Christ, and this is worthy of note, right? These four things, the work of salvation and exaltation, how do we focus and simplify our lives? How do we participate in something big, and play a big part? We live the gospel of Jesus Christ. We care for those in need. We invite all to receive the gospel, and we unite families for eternity.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 50:24

Now, Isaiah, Isaiah was the original handbook in my assessment. That when I come back to Isaiah, and when I say, Okay, Father, You've told me what You want me to be doing with my life for the next little while, for the rest of my life, right? Because this is the covenant path, but it's in a realm of a calling. And I'm trying to simplify. So work to save and exalt all. So let's jump in, right? And what I want us to do with these first couple of gifts, that what I would do is bracket verses 55, Chapter 55:1,3. Let's bracket it and label it 'free gift of salvation', knowing that this is the gift for all. And Tammy, what if you read 55:1-3 - and the idea is this free gift for all? Tammy, if you'll read it knowing you might get disrupted, okay?

Tammy 51:23

Okay. 55:1 "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Tammy 51:38

2 "Wherefore Do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness."

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 51:51

Okay, wait, don't you love that?

Tammy 51:53

Oh, I mean, yeah, I love bread. I can eat it for days.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 51:57

Just enjoy your fatness. This is all about loving your body, right? No.

Tammy 52:01

OH, Yeah,

Anne Madsen 52:02

Yeah, I like to think so. I do. I train myself to think that that's what it's saying.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 52:08

I wish.

Tammy 52:09

I mean, I think there'll be bread in heaven, there better be.

Tammy 52:12

Well, don't you think that's significant in helping us to understand that Christ is the Living Water and the Living Bread? Come and have an experience with Him and His offering. And participate with that. Tammy, add the last verse, and then we'll

Tammy 52:27

Okay verse 3.

Tammy 52:28

55:3 "Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David." OH, those are good. And I like how it says "every one".

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 52:42

Every one. There's no one left out of this. And then I would say, I would add to your 'every one' is the frequency of 'come'. That there's an invitation to move or advance, to progress, or show up. But you've got to choose it. Right? So it's not a matter of someone being excluded; it, this is for everyone who will choose it. Right? And it's all about the covenant, about making the covenant of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And then just for sake of time we go down and we look at verses 6 & 7, specifically.

Tammy 53:21

Yes. Yes. I'm so glad you chose those. OHhh,

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 53:24

What are we meant to do, rght? And in looking at that, I think it's important to look for those action word. What, what does it look like to navigate the covenant path? That's what I hear because President Nelson has helped us to get so clear in that visual. So what are the, what are the words you see in there that are the action in 6, 7, might even go into 8 & 9? Go for it ladies, what do you see that's the invitation to engage, what are we meant to do?

Tammy 53:56

To seek, and call?

Anne Madsen 54:01

And to make a difference between right and wrong, sin and error.

Tammy 54:08

Return, in verse 7. How much do we love "for he will abundantly pardon." Abundantly. There's no end to how many times.

Anne Madsen 54:21

And how does that make you feel about someone that you haven't pardoned? Can you do it abundantly?

Tammy 54:30

Yeah, cuz it's kinda like, first, what is that saying? "First time shame on them; second time shame on me." The Savior never says that. He's just like, Hey, let's just work it out.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 54:38

Well that's, that's Isaiah 53 again, right? This idea that we'd turn our back - He wouldn't. And if we're really to become, there's going to have to be some action. There's going to have to be this idea of seeking and calling and forsaking and turning. Because all are welcome to the table, I'm going to give my all to help them to come and feast and to be a part of it.

Anne Madsen 54:50

And our all, I mean, we do the best we can. And we don't ever have to feel like our best is not good enough. It is for the moment, and then our best is different later. I had a student that went through the verses about "become thirsty" and all of that. And then she wrote something that was so interesting that I've written it down and I keep it all the time. She says, When we sin, we are selling ourselves for nothing, because we don't see our worth. Sin doesn't bring us anything good, anything. So we are selling ourselves for something of no value. However, we are actually of such great value that when we are brought back from sin, money could never be enough to buy us back. The only thing that could buy us back is the priceless Blood of Christ. We are of such great worth, that only Christ's Infinite Atonement can redeem us. Oh, I think that attitude is, it was way beyond her years.

Tammy 56:20

Wow, how astute, perfect.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 56:23

So beautiful. There's so much in this chapter. But let's just, you know, this idea of focusing on salvation is free for all, and that we just choose it. But we choose and we act. So let's go over to chapter 56. And just this re emphasizing of it. It's important to note so again, we talked about the exalted, all who keep the commandments will be exalted. And it's interesting because Isaiah is asking us to focus on the Sabbath. And that when we look at verse 2, it says,

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 56:55

56:2 "Blessed is the man that doeth with this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it,"

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 57:02

But connect it to verse 4 and then we're going to look at what's in between. In verse 4 it's "keep my sabbaths". it's plural. And one thing I've I've learned in this is that is drawing in the whole law of Moses, the plural sabbaths is bringing in the whole. And so how then do we observe God's law? What does the Sabbath become for us? And how does that become this symbol of our - how does President Nelson say it? "The symbol of our devotion."

Anne Madsen 57:37

But he also calls it a delight, when it comes to be a delight.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 57:43

And so in the middle of this, then, we've got, and I love the way, Anne you taught us about the barren woman, the family, the husband, that God uses these metaphors to help us to see He's serious about this, he means it. And in this one, in verse 3, He's going to use a stranger and a eunuch. And both of those words are found in the Bible dictionary and are worth some energy to go look in. But this idea with the stranger is that it's a non-Israelite living among the Hebrews. And so just as you've described the tent, here's someone that you're supposed to include and take care of, no matter what. The other's the eunuch. And this is such a profound symbol, because the eunuch, because of his sexual mutilation, he can't bare a child, he can't father a child. He's barren now, right?

Tammy 58:44

It's like he took two of the most marginalized in society, and said, because in 55 He's like, "Every one can come". And then He's, He doubles down on that and 56. 'And let me prove to you who can come, oh, the stranger and the eunuch.? I mean, the eunuch is ridiculous. Anyone at this time would laugh at that and say, Not the eunuch! I mean, come on. Let's raise the bar a little bit.' But I just, that's what I love about this. Any one. Every one. All are welcome.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 59:01

Yeah. And that it's this, I mean, the eunuch even being a dry, "I am a dry tree. I have no seed". I, the same I mean, Anne, is there the same same sort of a, I guess there would be the same stigma for him as a barren woman who's going to get returned to her father. This man probably will never even marry because they know the condition that he's in and the stigma that's attached to this. Yet, yet through our choices, right? "For thus saith the Lord", I'm in verse 4 of chapter 56,

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 59:49

56"4 "For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths," I think that that is really important because it's the invitation to act, that if you keep my Sabbaths and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant, then,and then as you go down through, what are the blessings to come? and and the promises that will come to us? Well, you'll see. I think we probably want to go in verse 7.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:00:21

56:7 "Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:00:37

I mean, there's no one left out at all. So God's serious about this. And it just for me punctuates my work as a covenant keeper.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:00:49

My work as a covenant-keeper, is important to keep my covenant ,as He said, as it is to invite others to make covenants, to live the gospel of Jesus Christ t,o care for those in need. And need means a lot of things. I think sometimes we want need to be really, really huge. Really, you know, I was thinking about that the other day that we want big projects, and those matter, they do. But need means a lot of things. I remember one day when I was teaching Seminary and had all these needy kids this year, and I was so sick of them. (laughter) I remember driving to school one day and thinking, I just don't want to deal with the neediness today. I'm not in the mood. And the Spirit just just prompted, it just the whisper of, We're all needy and naked. And this is what you've promised to do. I don't know that I've articulated that really well, but just this idea ofwe're all pretty needy in a fallen state. And then the inviting, and the inviting doesn't say force, but it does say all to receive the gospel, and uniting families for eternity. I just, Isaiah's showing us God means business, and the work of salvation and exaltation is what it's all about.

Tammy 1:02:08

Wow. Amen, Jen. That was so good. Thank you for teaching us from Isaiah 55 and 56. Awesome. Amen. So that's it. That's the end of our episode, you guys. We did it. Yay. That was so good! Okay, so just take a minute. Oh, my gosh, that was so much information in just a few verses of Isaiah. AH! And we didn't even go verse by verse. I mean, that is what's crazy. You could do this for days. So what I want you to do is gather your thoughts, and what is your takeaway from today? What's something that you learned or that you'll remember in our discussions?

Anne Madsen 1:02:46

The teachings of the Prophet Isaiah have real relevance in our world today, in your world and my world. And I believe that reading Isaiah, and praying about it, and thinking about it, and deepening your roots in it will change many things in your life. And as you ponder his words, you will learn to recognize the voice of the Lord.

Tammy 1:03:24

Beautiful takeaway. Wow, that was good. And true. Absolutely true. Jen.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:03:31

Tammy, thanks for starting us and reminding us, "Lord God, he will cause gods to be." That, that to me, set such an intention for our study today, to be able to see this is all about the exalting work of God. That I am meant to be exalted. And that all of this, I love the way you helped me see that, that even with the servant's song, that Jesus Christ is becoming, and it gives me such patience for the mess of my life. That then I'm in a process, but I'm coming. And I'm coming. And I choose, I choose Him. Always,

Tammy 1:04:13

Always choose Him. Jen, thank you. That is a great takeaway and I'm glad you had that moment. So thank you for sharing that. Jen, I loved that you had us look for the questions. I have never done that in Isaiah 50. And that changed everything for me. And I cannot wait now to go back in and highlight all the questions and really study them. So thank you for setting me on that path to do that. And then Anne, oh my gosh, how much did I love the sheep story? That each one has its own path; I've never known that. And now it adds such deeper meaning to the idea, to the idea that the Savior is our Shepherd, and that He seeks after us. And now I think He actually will follow one of us if we have gone astray. He'll follow our path. Like He really will go where He says He will go to find us. And so that, I love visuals and so my mind was just swirling with that story. So thank you for sharing that. So thank you, ladies. I love you. This was awesome.

Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt 1:05:06

It was so awesome. Love you, too. So,

Tammy 1:05:08

A great iscussion. Anne, thank you for joining us today. It was a privilege to be with you. Wow.

Anne Madsen 1:05:14

Oh, thank you so much.

Tammy 1:05:15

K, Bye.

Anne Madsen 1:05:16

Bye.

Anne Madsen 1:05:18

Well, we would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, you should. It's a great place to ask questions or post comments throughout the week. And then on Saturday, at the end of the week, we post a call asking for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let us know what you've learned. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sunday on Monday and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway. It's where we're going to have the links to all the references as well as the complete transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.

Anne Madsen 1:05:49

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me,Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our fabulous study group participants were Anne Madsen and Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt and you can find more information about these friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me. It is edited by Hailey Higham, and it is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios. And our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Anne Madsen 1:06:16

Thanks for being here. See you next week. And please remember that God loves you. And you are His favorite

Anne Madsen 1:06:27

"I'm not sure I understand."

Anne Madsen 1:06:28

And oh ,I'm sure don't. Why are you talking to me? Anyway.......Laughter

Transcribed by https://otter.ai