43: "I Speak unto You As If Ye Were Present" (Mormon 7–9)
It can be easy to look at the world today with devastating natural disasters, a sweeping pandemic, and horrifying social injustices and assume the day of miracles has passed. But that’s simply not the case. In this week’s study group, we’ll dig into Mormon 7–9 to find that not only do miracles still exist today, but we can experience them in our lives as we seek to come closer to Christ.
Books Referenced in This Episode:
Verse by Verse, the Book of Mormon, Volume 2: Alma 30–Moroni 10 by Kelly Ogden and Andrew C. Skinner
Segment 1:
Se que la iglesia de Jesu Cristo de los santos de los ultilmos dios es verdad y esla Iglesia de Dios en la tierra hoy. Se que el libro de Mormon es la palabra de Dios. Aprendi Espanol durante los ultimo meses de mi mission y Yo se que Dios es un dios de Milagros por que no soy lista. Amo a Jesus. Por Favor, Elegir Cristo. En el nombre de Jesu Cristo Amen.
I know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and is the church of God on the earth today. I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I learned Spanish during the last months of my mission and I know that God is a God of miracles because I am not that smart. I love Jesus. Please choose Christ. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Mormon's last words to us:
1 And now, behold, I would speak somewhat unto the aremnant of this people who are spared, if it so be that God may give unto them my words, that they may know of the things of their fathers; yea, I speak unto you, ye remnant of the house of Israel; and these are the words which I speak:
2 Know ye that ye are of the ahouse of Israel.
3 Know ye that ye must come unto repentance, or ye cannot be saved.
- House of Israel = us
- Israel comes from two Hebrew words "el" meaning God and "Ishra." The of "Ishra" is Sarah (shara) which means persistence, persevere, prevail. Israel = God will prevail.
What do we need to do to have God prevail in our lives?
5 Know ye that ye must come to the aknowledge of your fathers, and repent of all your sins and iniquities, and bbelieve in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God, and that he was slain by the Jews, and by the power of the Father he hath risen again, whereby he hath gained the cvictory over the grave; and also in him is the sting of death swallowed up (Mormon 7:5).
8 Therefore repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the agospel of Christ, which shall be set before you, not only in this record but also in the record which shall come unto the Gentiles bfrom the Jews, which record shall come from the Gentiles cunto you (Mormon 7:8).
Quote: ". . . it simply isn’t possible to be a disciple of someone you don’t know" (Sheri Dew, "Sweet Above All That Is Sweet," BYU Magazine, Fall 2014 issue).
President Monson's Last Words to Us:
"My dear associates in the work of the Lord, I implore each of us to prayerfully study and ponder the Book of Mormon each day. As we do so, we will be in a position to hear the voice of the Spirit, to resist temptation, to overcome doubt and fear, and to receive heaven’s help in our lives. I so testify with all my heart in the name of Jesus Christ, amen" (President Thomas S. Monson, "The Power of the Book of Mormon," April 2017 general conference).
Segment 2:
What is the most significant gift we can have?
Quote: “I would like to speak about one of the most significant gifts given to the world in modern times. The gift I am thinking of is more important than any of the inventions that have come out of the industrial and technological revolutions. This is a gift of greater value to mankind than even the many wonderful advances we have seen in modern medicine. It is of greater worth to mankind than the development of flight or space travel. I speak of the gift of …” (President Ezra Taft Benson, “The Book of Mormon—Keystone of Our Religion,” October 1986 general conference).
12 And whoso receiveth athis record, and shall not condemn it because of the imperfections which are in it, the same shall know of bgreater things than these. Behold, I am Moroni; and were it possible, I would make all things known unto you (Mormon 8:12).
- This record = the Book of Mormon
Background of Mormon 8:
3 And my father also was killed by them, and I even aremain balone to write the sad tale of the destruction of my people. But behold, they are gone, and I fulfil the commandment of my father. And whether they will slay me, I know not (Mormon 8:3).
5 Behold, my father hath made athis record, and he hath written the intent thereof. And behold, I would write it also if I had room upon the bplates, but I have not; and ore I have none, for I am alone. My father hath been slain in battle, and all my kinsfolk, and I have not friends nor whither to go; and chow long the Lord will suffer that I may live I know not (Mormon 8:5).
- Moroni's father, Mormon, is killed
- Moroni has no family or friends left.
- He alone is left to finish the record.
A 2kg (4 pound) gold nugget found in Australia worth approximately $160,000 (Photo by 9news.com.au).
Here's what Moroni had to say about the worth of the plates:
14 And I am the same who ahideth up this record unto the Lord; the plates thereof are of no worth, because of the commandment of the Lord. For he truly saith that no one shall have them bto get gain; but the record thereof is of cgreat worth; and whoso shall bring it to light, him will the Lord bless (Mormon 8:14).
How the Gold Plates could have benefited Joseph's Smith's family financially:
They lost their farm in Palmyra because of their inability to make the final purchase payment.
In the autumn of 1830, Father Smith spent a month in debtor's prison because he was unable to pay a fourteen-dollar debt.
Throughout his (Father Smith's) life indigence often compelled him and Mother Smith to live with their children, or compelled their children (and sometimes grandchildren) to live with them.
While living in Kirtland, he was at least twice warned out of town because of his poverty, and, to his dying moment, he never owned property in Nauvoo” (Mark L McConkie, “Father of the Prophet: Stories and Insights from the Life of Joseph Smith, Sr. DB, 1993, 13).
Segment 3:
Moroni's advice to us:
35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.
36 And I know that ye do awalk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not blift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of cvery fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts (Mormon 8:35–36).
38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye aashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that bmisery which never dies—because of the cpraise of the world? (Mormon 8:38).
Moroni's Three Warnings to Us:
1. Moroni's warning to those who condemn the Book of Mormon.
17 And if there be afaults they be the faults of a man. But behold, we know no fault; nevertheless God knoweth all things; therefore, he that bcondemneth, let him be aware lest he shall be in danger of hell fire.
18 And he that saith: Show unto me, or ye shall be asmitten—let him beware lest he commandeth that which is forbidden of the Lord.
19 For behold, the same that ajudgeth brashly shall be judged rashly again; for according to his works shall his wages be; therefore, he that smiteth shall be smitten again, of the Lord.
20 Behold what the scripture says—man shall not asmite, neither shall he bjudge; for judgment is mine, saith the Lord, and vengeance is mine also, and I will repay.
21 And he that shall breathe out awrath and bstrifes against the work of the Lord, and against the ccovenant people of the Lord who are the house of Israel, and shall say: We will destroy the work of the Lord, and the Lord will not remember his covenant which he hath made unto the house of Israel—the same is in danger to be hewn down and cast into the fire;
22 For the eternal apurposes of the Lord shall roll on, until all his promises shall be fulfilled (Mormon 8:17–22).
2. Study Isaiah
23 Search the prophecies of aIsaiah. Behold, I cannot write them. Yea, behold I say unto you, that those saints who have gone before me, who have possessed this land, shall bcry, yea, even from the dust will they cry unto the Lord; and as the Lord liveth he will remember the covenant which he hath made with them.
24 And he knoweth their aprayers, that they were in behalf of their brethren. And he knoweth their faith, for in his name could they remove bmountains; and in his name could they cause the earth to shake; and by the power of his word did they cause cprisons to tumble to the earth; yea, even the fiery furnace could not harm them, neither wild beasts nor poisonous serpents, because of the power of his word.
25 And behold, their aprayers were also in behalf of him that the Lord should suffer to bring these things forth (Mormon 8:23–25).
3. When the Book of Mormon will come forth there will be great pollutions and natural disasters.
26 And no one need say they shall not come, for they surely shall, for the Lord hath spoken it; for aout of the earth shall they come, by the hand of the Lord, and none can stay it; and it shall come in a day when it shall be said that bmiracles are done away; and it shall come even as if one should speak cfrom the dead.
27 And it shall come in a day when the ablood of saints shall cry unto the Lord, because of secret bcombinations and the works of darkness.
28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be adenied, and bchurches become defiled and be clifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.
29 Yea, it shall come in a day when athere shall be heard of fires, and tempests, and bvapors of smoke in foreign lands;
30 And there shall also be heard of awars, rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places.
31 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great apollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be bmurders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it cmattereth not, for the Lord will duphold such at the last day. But wo unto such, for they are in the egall of bitterness and in the fbonds of iniquity.
32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be achurches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.
33 O ye wicked and perverse and astiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get bgain? Why have ye ctransfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring ddamnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the erevelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled (Mormon 8:26–33).
Quote:
“Elder Boyd K. Packer said, ‘As we test the moral environment, we find the pollution index is spiraling upward’ (in Conference Report, Apr. 1992, p. 91; or Ensign, May 1992, 66). The Apostle Paul foresaw ‘that in the last days perilous times shall come’ (2 Timothy 3:1). And speaking of the last days, the prophet Moroni declared, ‘Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth’ (Mormon 8:31).
“Sadly, the effects of this great pollution are perhaps most evident in the mass media, films, television, and popular music. Of this, Senator Robert D. Byrd said, ‘If we in this nation continue to sow the images of murder, violence, drug abuse, … perversion, [and] pornography … before the eyes of millions of children, year after year and day after day, we should not be surprised if the foundations of our society rot away as if from leprosy’ (Michael Medved, Hollywood vs. America, New York: Harper Perennial, 1992, p. 194) (Elder Joe J. Christensen, "Rearing Children in a Polluted Environment," October 1993 general conference).
What can we do to get rid of pollutions in our lives?
33 O ye wicked and perverse and astiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get bgain? Why have ye ctransfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring ddamnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the erevelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled (Mormon 8:33).
What are the revelations?
7 And again I speak unto you who adeny the revelations of God, and say that they are done away, that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the binterpretation of tongues;
8 Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the agospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not bunderstand them (Mormon 9:7–8).
Quote:
“Only the acceptance of the revelations of God can bring both direction and correction and, in turn, bring a 'brightness of hope' (2 Ne. 31:20). Real hope does not automatically 'spring eternal' unless it is connected with eternal things!" (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, "Brightness of Hope," October 1994 general conference).
Segment 4:
How will those who denied the Savior feel when they see Him?
2 Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation—behold, when the Lord shall come, yea, even that agreat day when the bearth shall be rolled together as a scroll, and the elements shall cmelt with fervent heat, yea, in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God—then will ye say that there is no God?
3 Then will ye longer deny the Christ, or can ye behold the Lamb of God? Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a aconsciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws?
4 Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your afilthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the bdamned souls in chell (Mormon 9:2–4).
Quote: “He's going to give you the best you want. You're getting let off as easy as [possible]. You'd prefer hell a thousand times so that you won't have to [be in his presence], so that's what you get, if you want it. You know the kind of people you like and you want to be with. Everyone's going to get the easiest possible sentence here. You'll be far 'more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God,' so they're not going to make you. You'll say thank heaven for that. God, you're being very kind, not making me dwell here. There's justice and mercy all the way here. Notice he says we would much prefer 'to dwell with the damned souls in hell [they're your people]'" (High Nibley, Teachings of the Book of Mormon Vol 4, Deseret Book 1993, p. 230).
Cross Reference:
8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who awould have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;
9 For I, the Lord, will ajudge all men according to their bworks, according to the cdesire of their hearts (Doctrine and Covenants 137:8–9).
5 For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your anakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the bholiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you.
6 O then ye aunbelieving, bturn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, cpure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the dLamb, at that great and last day (Mormon 9:5–6).
- Pure, fair, and white = inward appearance.
Cross Reference:
18 Come now, and let us areason together, saith the Lord: though your bsins be as scarlet, they shall be as cwhite as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool (Isaiah 1:18).
Segment 5:
10 And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles (Mormon 9:10).
The Doctrine of Miracles (Mormon 9:11–22).
11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of amiracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same bGod who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are.
12 Behold, he created Adam, and by aAdam came the bfall of man. And because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the credemption of man.
13 And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the apresence of the Lord; yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed, because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the bresurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless csleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound; and they shall come forth, both small and great, and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal dband of death, which death is a temporal death.
14 And then cometh the ajudgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is bfilthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still.
15 And now, O all ye that have imagined up unto yourselves a god who can do ano miracles, I would ask of you, have all these things passed, of which I have spoken? Has the end come yet? Behold I say unto you, Nay; and God has not ceased to be a God of miracles.
16 Behold, are not the things that God hath wrought marvelous in our eyes? Yea, and who can comprehend the marvelous aworks of God?
17 Who shall say that it was not a miracle that by his aword the heaven and the earth should be; and by the power of his word man was bcreated of the cdust of the earth; and by the power of his word have miracles been wrought?
18 And who shall say that Jesus Christ did not do many mighty amiracles? And there were many bmighty miracles wrought by the hands of the apostles.
19 And if there were amiracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he bchangeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.
20 And the reason why he ceaseth to do amiracles among the children of men is because that they dwindle in unbelief, and depart from the right way, and know not the God in whom they should btrust.
21 Behold, I say unto you that whoso believeth in Christ, doubting nothing, awhatsoever he shall ask the Father in the name of Christ it shall be granted him; and this bpromise is unto all, even unto the ends of the earth (Mormon 9:11–21).
Segment 6:
26 And now, behold, who can stand aagainst the works of the Lord? bWho can deny his sayings? Who will rise up against the almighty power of the Lord? Who will despise the works of the Lord? Who will despise the children of Christ? Behold, all ye who are cdespisers of the works of the Lord, for ye shall wonder and perish.
27 O then despise not, and wonder not, but hearken unto the words of the Lord, and ask the Father in the name of Jesus for what things soever ye shall stand in need. aDoubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old, and bcome unto the Lord with all your cheart, and dwork out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him.
28 Be awise in the days of your bprobation; strip yourselves of all uncleanness; ask not, that ye may consume it on your clusts, but ask with a firmness unshaken, that ye will yield to no temptation, but that ye will serve the true and dliving God (Mormon 9:26–28).
- True and living God Cross References: Alma 11:25-27; 1 Nephi 17:30; Alma 5:13; Alma 43:10; Alma 7:6; 1 Samuel 17:23
Cross Reference:
35 Who shall separate us from the alove of Christ? shall btribulation, or distress, or cpersecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (Romans 8:35).
37 Nay, in all these things we are amore than bconquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to aseparate us from the blove of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:37–38).
Which language would Moroni have liked to have written the plates?
32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the areformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
33 And if our plates had been asufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no bimperfection in our record (Mormon 9:32–33).
Quote: “Nephites used a modified form of Egyptian in their written records. Moroni made an unusual claim: Had they used Hebrew, he felt, there would have been no imperfections in the record. Could that suggest that Hebrew is a remnant of the pure language of God or at least related to it in some way?” (Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse the Book of Mormon Vol 2, Deseret Book, p. 253).
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Se que la iglesia de Jesu Cristo de los santos de los ultilmos dios es verdad y esla Iglesia de Dios en la tierra hoy. Se que el libro de Mormon es la palabra de Dios. Aprendi Espanol durante los ultimo meses de mi mission y Yo se que Dios es un dios de Milagros por que no soy lista. Amo a Jesus. Por Favor, Elegir Cristo. En el nombre de Jesu Cristo Amen.
Tammy: You're probably wondering why I began this week's lesson in Spanish. Well, today as we study Mormon chapter seven through nine, you will learn not only why I spoke in Spanish, but also what I just said and why I said it. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group friends, a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the Scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, I just wanna make sure you know how to use this.
Tammy: So here's the two cool things about our podcast. Number one, you can listen to it all at once, it's usually about an hour long. But this podcast is also broken up into six segments and each segment is about 10-12 minutes each. So you can listen to one per day and study your Scriptures for 10-12 minutes a day. And when the segment is finished, you will hear some music, so listen for that music. Just like I found out our friend Barb Larson does on her way taking her kids to school in the morning. Hi, Larson family. Now this is the second thing that I love about our podcast is that each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always different. We're always gonna get different perspective on the Scriptures and how they apply to our lives. So today, we have Jalyn Peterson and our new friend Shilo Kino from New Zealand. Hi, ladies.
Jalyn Peterson: Hey, Tam.
Shilo Kino: Kia ora, hello.
Tammy: Hi. Okay, this is so much fun. So Jalyn you're a regular. But there's something we don't know, you got a haircut. Hello, you look great, by the way.
Jalyn: Yeah, thank you.
Tammy: You shaved your head, kind of.
Jalyn: Shaved the head. COVID hair, don't care.
[laughter]
Jalyn: I got too hot, I've always wanted to shave it. So shaved it off.
Tammy: Hey, make sure...
Jalyn: It's amazing.
Tammy: Yeah.
Jalyn: Every woman needs the chance to go into a barber shop. And A, pay those prices B, have the hot neck wax. Oh, hot neck wax by a hot man, who smells really good. Which was a good... I mean, it was a delightful experience.
Tammy: Well, and you look good too. Make sure that's your new bio pic, okay? 'Cause you look fantastic, so...
Jalyn: Thank you, thank you so much.
Tammy: So Jalyn, you shared it with me, tell us what you found on your Facebook page.
Jalyn: So when I opened up Facebook this morning, the pilot that we had recorded to send out, that was my Facebook memory of sharing that pilot episode with all of our friends and family on Facebook. So I love that I get to be here on that one year anniversary recording again. So thank you.
Tammy: I didn't even know that. So one year ago today, you and I were here trying things out. And now see you, Shilo, hi, you're in New Zealand right now.
Shilo: Hi, yes, I am. I'm sitting in my car at the moment 'cause I'm on a break from work. So everything is back to normal.
Tammy: Tell us what you do for work?
Shilo: I work as a journalist for a current affairs show called Marae, which shares indigenous stories of Māori people.
Jalyn: Wow.
Shilo: Yeah.
Tammy: That's incredible.
Shilo: Yeah.
Jalyn: That's so cool. You guys need to go check out the show notes and see Shilo 'cause she's probably one of the most beautiful people I've ever seen in my life.
Shilo: Oh, my goodness.
Tammy: It's true.
Jalyn: She is, right?
Tammy: And she's young. And she's single, FYI.
Jalyn: Oh, hey.
Tammy: And you know, here's what I've noticed too Shilo, you're a fighter. Tell us a little bit about your fight for the Māori language.
Shilo: Alright. Yes. So I'm a big advocate for te reo Māori. So it's a language that was banned from our government about 100 or so years ago. So my grandparents and many other of the people at that time, the language was banned. So they were unable to speak it in schools. And so it wasn't passed down to me. And so I can't speak my language. And so I'm trying to learn it back. I'm trying to advocate to normalize it. Because it is a native language of New Zealand.
Jalyn: I didn't know that. I didn't know they banned it.
Tammy: No.
Shilo: And it's quite sad 'cause a lot of Māori can't speak our own language.
Tammy: Are you advocating to put it back in schools, so it'll be part of a curriculum?
Shilo: For sure. We're trying to make it not just the language but also the history. Again, a lot of Māori don't know their own culture. Here in New Zealand, their own language, their own identity. So yeah, it's a big fight that's ongoing and it has been ongoing for years. So I'm just part of the big number of people that are fighting.
Jalyn: That's amazing.
Tammy: Yeah, that is amazing. Here's how I know Shilo, though, this is the best story. So Shilo, you were the very first person to ever reach out to me on Instagram.
Shilo: Really? Wow.
Tammy: Yes. I loved it. Because you gave me a piece of advice. And you said, "Just so you know, there are a lot of us who are listening that are not from Utah." And that had not even dawned on me like... I'm like, "Wait, what, other people... " And then when I... You said you're from New Zealand, I got chills. I'm like, "Someone from New Zealand is listening. What?" So you gave me the best advice and you just said, "Yeah, make sure you say where things are 'cause we don't know we're not from Utah." So that's how we met. We're Instagram friends.
Shilo: There's actually a lot of us from New Zealand that are listening. So just hi to everyone in New Zealand.
Jalyn: I love that.
Shilo: Yeah.
Tammy: How do I say hi in Māori?
Shilo: Kia ora.
Tammy: Kia ora. Kia ora, my New Zealand friends.
Jalyn: She's like the OG fan girl.
Tammy: Yes, she is. She listens... You said you listen every week.
Shilo: I do. And I remember listening to the pilot episode and loving it because it feels like a community even though you're all the way over in the States and I'm in New Zealand. Me being a convert, I haven't really found people to connect with to study, Come Follow Me. And it felt like I was part of a group, community of friends almost that I could talk with and listening with and discuss the Scriptures and stuff. So yeah, it made me feel connected and... Like I belonged.
Jalyn: I love that Shilo is part of our community.
Shilo: Oh, me too.
Jalyn: I know, right? I feel cool now. Ooh we should do a podcast from New Zealand.
Tammy: Okay.
Jalyn: Yeah.
Tammy: We're coming New Zealand.
Shilo: Yay! I'm excited.
Tammy: Well, for those of you who wanna know what my friends look like and wanna know more information about them, make sure you check out their bios, you can find their bios in our link at LDSliving.com/sundayonmonday. So Mormon chapter seven through nine are Mormon's final words to us. And they're Moroni's first words to us. So do you remember how from last week, how destitute and severe the conditions were. As Mormon explained, the war, the death, the carnage, the wickedness, the terror and the feeling of being alone, Moroni knows truly what it means to be alone, and he takes over for his father, and we're going to begin a study of what he has to say to us in our day. So friends, grab your Scriptures and let's dig in. Okay, ladies, I asked you guys to come prepared today with your last and final words, what is it that you would wanna share with your family and friends, but you could only do it in six sentences.
Shilo: Okay, so this was what I wrote down. There are so many things I want to say and I want to express, but really, my greatest wish for all of you is that you get to know Jesus Christ. My days on Earth have not been perfect, and just like you all, I've experienced tragedy, broken heart, broken dream, sickness, loneliness, rejection and sadness, but Jesus Christ makes the difference. He has given me the greatest life and has made every hardship worth it. Happiness in this life and the life to come is as simple as making a choice, the choice to follow Jesus Christ.
Tammy: That was...
Jalyn: I can't go after that, that was amazing.
Tammy: It was.
Jalyn: Mic drop.
Tammy: Thank you, Shilo.
Shilo: You're welcome.
Tammy: I felt the spirit so strong when you shared that. Okay, Jalyn, you're up. Six sentences, what do you got?
Jalyn: Mine, I can actually do in a couple of sentences. People say they wanna be remembered for something and they want... And I'm like, "No, forget about me. I want you to go out and live your life. You go do your thing." But I would want people to know that I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. And so my advice would definitely be to follow the example of Jesus Christ. And to know, like my friend Tamara always says, that you're God's favorite, that God is always with you. And the most important thing that you can ever do in this life is to figure out how God communicates with you, and then listen to that voice, listen to that communication, and daily communicate with your Heavenly Father.
Tammy: Perfect, thank you, Jalyn. That was perfect. Mine is what I said at the very beginning, and I spoke it in Spanish, and this is what the translation is of what I said, I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and is the church of God on the Earth today. I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I learned Spanish during the last months of my mission, and I know that God is a God of miracles, because I'm not that smart. I love Jesus, please choose Christ, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Jalyn: Oh, that's great.
Tammy: So thank you, ladies, for sharing your final words. Let's read what Mormon's last words were to us. Let's go to Mormon chapter seven. And we're gonna read verses 1 through 3, so this is it, this is the end of the Book of Mormon. And this is the last that Mormon has to say to us. Now, of course, we have Ether and Moroni, and Ether is separate from the plates, it came way before Nephi, and we'll talk about that in a couple of weeks, and then Moroni will get the plates in a little bit and we'll discuss that, but as far as what's being written and what Mormon wants us to know, this... These are his last words, and so we're gonna read verses 1 through 3. Jalyn, will you please read those for us?
Jalyn: And now, behold, I would speak somewhat unto the remnant of this people who are spared, if it so be that God may give unto them my words, that they may know of the things of their fathers. Yea, I speak unto you, ye remnant of the house of Israel; and these are the words which I speak: Know ye that ye are of the house of Israel. Know ye that ye must come unto repentance or ye cannot be saved.
Tammy: Thank you. In verse 1, when he says, "I speak unto you, ye remnant of the house of Israel," highlight "house of Israel." And we've talked about this a lot, the house of Israel is us. It's you, it's me, it's everybody that we're trying to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to, and I've said this several times throughout the year, that when you're baptized, you're adopted into the House of Israel, and by belonging to the house of Israel, you get all the Abrahamic promises and covenants. The other neat thing is the word 'Israel,' and we have to talk about that from what the prophet said, I mean, how giddy was I when I'm like, "The prophet is citing Hebrew, he wanted greater light and knowledge on the subject. So what did he do? He went to Hebrew. Of course he did. So this is kind of cool. So Israel is two words in Hebrew, 'Yisra' and 'El,' and the word 'El' in Hebrew means God and the word 'Yisra,' the root for that word is 'Sarah' or 'Sarah,' which is Sarah. And what that word means in Hebrew is persistent, perseveres, and God will prevail. And that's where it comes from. The ancient root is God will prevail.
Tammy: So here we have this word 'Israel.' God will prevail and he really will. That's what Mormon is teaching us, in our lives in the house of Israel, God will prevail. And how will he do that? Through his people. And what do we need to do? Then this is what Mormon teaches us. What I want us to do is look at verse 5 and 8. Now, I'm gonna read these two verses, and Shilo and Jalyn, as I read these two verses in Mormon chapter 7, verse 5 and 8, I want you to highlight what Mormon wants us to do to help the Lord prevail. What do we as His people need to do? Here we go.
Tammy: Know ye that ye must come to the knowledge of your fathers, and repent of all your sins and inequities, and believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God, and that he was slain by the Jews, and by the power of the Father he hath been risen again, whereby he hath gained the victory over the grave; and also in him is the sting of death swallowed up. Therefore repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the gospel of Christ, which shall be set before you, not only in this record but also in the record which shall come unto the Gentiles from the Jews, which record shall come from the Gentiles unto you. Okay, what did you guys mark?
Jalyn: It first says, come to the knowledge of your fathers. Repent of all your sins, believe in Jesus Christ. And then again, it says repent and be baptized. Lay hold upon the gospel.
Tammy: Shilo, what were some of your thoughts as we read those verses?
Shilo: Yeah. So definitely the first thing that comes to mind is the knowledge. And for many of us, we don't know Jesus Christ, that's the first thing, is the coming to know him. And it's Sherri Dew that said, "You can't be a disciple of someone that you don't know." So how can you be a disciple of Jesus Christ if you don't know him? So that's why the knowledge of who the Savior is, and having that relationship with him is so important. And then, that allows us to repent of our sins and then, come on, and come and be baptized.
Tammy: Absolutely, I have a question for both of you. What do you think it means in verse 8 where it says, "Lay hold upon the gospel of Christ?" What does that look like for you in your own life?
Jalyn: That's fascinating because I thought that same thing of, "What does it look like to really lay hold upon the Gospel," and to me, I always think about Lehi's dream, and holding on to the iron rod and the Word of God. I just think literally holding upon the Gospel of Christ like clinging to it as the truth and the knowledge that you need to get through life.
Shilo: I think also going along with that is putting Jesus Christ at the center of our lives. And if we're clinging on to the iron rod with one hand, and then our hands are full with other things, we're kinda juggling and we let go, because we're putting all the other things before Christ. But if we make sure Christ comes first in all that we do, and he's the center of our life and all our thoughts and our hearts, everything that we do is directed to him. Then it will not be so much as cling, we'll just be holding on firmly rather than clinging and swaying.
Tammy: Yeah.
Jalyn: I love that.
Tammy: I do too, Shilo. I love that 'cause I'm so visual and so I'm imagining, "Oh my gosh, what am I balancing in my other hand that if it dropped, I would let go to save?" Wow. That was good.
Jalyn: Really good. What else am I laying hold on to?
Tammy: I like that.
Jalyn: It's really good.
Tammy: But what I loved about everything that we've discussed is that going back to you sharing your last final words in six sentences, the common theme for all of us is Jesus Christ. I just love that. And when I looked at this and then I looked at Mormon's words, His words definitely are all Christ-centered. And then I just was curious to know what the last words were of President Monson. And the very last words that he gave to us were in the Sunday morning session of the April 2017 General Conference. He didn't speak to us in October 2017, and he'll pass away in January of 2018. So I thought this was really interesting that the last thing he's gonna say to us is this, "My dear associates in the work of the Lord, I implore each of us to prayerfully study and ponder the Book of Mormon each day. As we do so, we will be in a position to hear the voice of the Spirit, to resist temptation, to overcome doubt and fear, and to receive heaven's help in our lives. I so testify with all my heart in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."
Tammy: And he did that in six sentences. That's why I made you do it in six. I thought that was so great, his final words to us. So for those of you listening, I want you to think about this. What are your last words? I'm gonna encourage you this week to think about what your last final words would be and to write them down. Write them in your journal, write them on a piece of paper, mail them to someone, I don't know, whatever you wanna do, and do it in six sentences. See what that experience is like, and ponder throughout the week all the different things that you would include in that. So in the next segment, we are going to begin our study of Moroni's first words. This is gonna be fun.
Segment 2
I can remember the day that my dad brought home our very first microwave.
Jalyn: Oh, my gosh.
Tammy: And it was huge.
Jalyn: It just took up all...
Tammy: It was the biggest thing, it took up the entire counter, this huge microwave, and I'll never forget the first thing we cooked. I think we boiled water.
Jalyn: Oh, we did chicken pot pie. When you can take less than 45 minutes to get one of those banquet chicken pot pies done, miraculous.
Tammy: And how amazing was it when I figured out you can put baloney in the microwave, and it'll cook up into the shape of a cup, and then you put Cheez Whiz in it. Oh my gosh, I just summed up my childhood in one meal.
[chuckle]
Jalyn: Well, I was today years old when I figured out that you could put baloney in the microwave.
[chuckle]
Tammy: Try it. It will totally fold up in the shape of a cup. Not even kidding.
Jalyn: Weird.
Tammy: Gosh. Shilo, do you have any memory of the first invention or something that came into your home?
Shilo: I don't remember the microwave being invented, but I do remember a phone, having my first mobile phone. I think I was 10 or something, and it wasn't a smartphone, but it was a flip phone. You could take photos and go on the internet, but it was really slow. But it was amazing.
Tammy: Totally amazing. So I want you to kinda be thinking about that in light of this quote that we have from President Ezra Taft Benson. Shilo, will you please read this quote for us?
Shilo: I would like to speak about one of the most significant gifts given to the world in modern times. The gift I am thinking of is more important than any of the inventions that have come out of the industrial and technological revolutions. This is a gift of greater value to mankind than even the many wonderful advances we have seen in modern medicine. It is of greater worth to mankind than the development of flight or space travel. I speak of the gift of...
Tammy: Okay, what do you think he's gonna say? What gift do you think?
Jalyn: The Book of Mormon.
Tammy: Book of Mormon. Ding-ding-ding.
Shilo: The Book of Mormon.
Jalyn: Good job.
Tammy: Yes. Book Of Mormon. Let's go to Mormon chapter eight, and we're gonna read verse 12. Just read the first sentence to the comma.
Jalyn: And whoso receiveth this record...
Tammy: Okay, highlight, "This record," in verse 12. That means the Book of Mormon, so that's what, "This record" means, so now go ahead.
Jalyn: And whoso receiveth this record, and shall not condemn it because of the imperfections which are in it, the same shall know of greater things than these. Behold, I am Moroni and were it possible, I would make all things known unto you.
Tammy: Also in that verse, let's mark, "You shall know of greater things than these." I love that right there, because he's basically saying, "No matter what you get, it's never gonna be as great as what you have right here with this Book of Mormon." It's the greatest. So as we study Mormon chapter 8, we're gonna find some truths that will help us better understand why the Book of Mormon is more valuable than any of these cool technological advances or inventions. So a little bit of background about Mormon chapter 8. We're gonna look at verse 3 and verse 5. Here's what you just need to know. Moroni's alone. Look at verse 3, scan your eyes really quickly, what two words does Moroni used to describe his situation?
Jalyn: Sad tale.
Tammy: Yeah, mark that. In fact, look how sad it is. I highlighted the words, "Sad tale," then I drew an arrow down to verse 5, where it starts with, "My father." Look how sad it is. It says, "My father hath been slain in battle, and all my kinsfolk, and I have not a friend nor whither to go." I mean, that's sad.
Jalyn: It kills me to the heart every time you read it, you're like, "Oh... " What he's just like alone, he's got nothing, like, you think you're alone and have problems, but I'm not, like, hidden in a cave, literally, like, "Whether or not I live, I don't really know. Everybody's gone. It's just me."
Tammy: Yep, and I'm just kind of hiding and hoping I don't die, fleeing for my life. Shilo, jump in. Anything.
Jalyn: And then I'm like, yes, he deserves a spot on top of every temple...
[laughter]
Jalyn: Just for that.
Tammy: Just for that verse.
[laughter]
Jalyn: Yeah.
Tammy: Totally.
[laughter]
Shilo: I think that we all experience loneliness. For me, like, my family, they're not members of the church and most of my friends, so I think, like 95% of the people that I'm around aren't members. And not only that, but often I will walk into a chapel and feel alone because my family aren't with me, I'm not married, and so I'm here by myself, and especially during COVID lockdown... We were in lockdown in New Zealand for six weeks, and... But I didn't take the sacrament for six weeks, but I think when I read the words of Moroni, I feel comforted in knowing that the greatest prophet went through the hardest and the most loneliest times, but they all did it with a purpose, which was to testify of Jesus Christ and to make sure that we have this record today, and I'm sure that they were comforted during their most lonely times, like, we are comforted too, and I think we all experience loneliness, no matter who we are or what our circumstances are, so it just brings me a lot of comfort.
Tammy: Oh, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that Shilo. That was beautiful and perfect. And when you talked about all of the prophets have had to suffer or go through a hardship for Christ, the one we're gonna talk about today is Joseph Smith and what he must have experienced and the hardships that led up to him receiving the plates. This is so interesting because it talks about it in Mormon chapter 8, but I have to ask you this question first to put it into context about Joseph Smith. In Mormon chapter 8, just write 15 years right there, because it is believed that 15 years have passed between the time when Mormon wrote his final words and when Moroni began to write on the plates. I don't know if you guys remember this, but back in July, did either one of you hear about the man in Victoria, Australia, who found a nugget of gold weighing two kilograms? For those of you who don't do the metric system, that's four pounds.
Jalyn: I did not.
[laughter]
Tammy: I'm like, "What's two kilograms?"
Shilo: Yeah. I didn't hear that.
Tammy: Okay. Describe this picture, 'cause I found the picture of it.
Jalyn: A hunk of gold that's about the size of a man's hand.
Tammy: Yes. They say this piece of gold is worth about $160,000, for this piece of gold at four pounds. What would you do with $160,000, ladies?
Shilo: Well, I would say, "Go on holiday," but I would probably have to be going a holiday in New Zealand 'cause I would have loved to travel with that money...
[laughter]
Shilo: That's not really an option right now.
Tammy: Right. Right.
Jalyn: I'd put a big down payment on a house.
Tammy: Oh, absolutely.
Jalyn: That's what I would do.
Tammy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tammy: I'd get a new bed.
Jalyn: Yeah.
Tammy: It's about due. We've been married for a long time, and we need a new bed. So, this money, thinking about what you would do with $160,000, it gives us some context for what Mormon is gonna teach us here. So go to Mormon chapter 8, verse 14. So, a little background for this is that Moroni is speaking about the plates, and here's what he says, and I'll read this verse. "And I am the same who hideth up this record unto the Lord. The plates thereof are of no worth, because of the commandment of the Lord, for he truly sayeth that no one shall have them to get gain, but the record thereof is of great worth, and who so shall bring it to light, him will the Lord bless." Now, let me tell you a little bit about the golden plates, because they were of worth. They weighed between 40 and 60 pounds. So, somebody do the math on that. I mean, if four pounds is worth $160,000, what are we looking at? Jalyn, do the math. You're our... Jalyn is our... In fact, today I called Jalyn and said, "Jalyn, I need you to work some numbers for me." Financial planner, so she can do this. What's I... What are the plates worth in our day?
Jalyn: 1.6 million.
Tammy: Okay. So...
Shilo: Wow.
Tammy: So 1.6 million.
Jalyn: Yeah, 1.6 million.
Tammy: Respectively. Okay. So that could get you out of a couple of jams, right? And it definitely could've for Joseph Smith. So, just some background. His family was so poor. In fact, in Joseph Smith History 1 verse 46, he'll actually say, "In consequence of the indigent circumstances of my father's family." Like he even says how poor they were. They were so poor that Father Smith will lose his farm in Palmyra because of his inability to make final purchase on the payment. In autumn of 1830, Father Smith... He'll spend a month in debtor's prison because he's unable to pay a $14 debt, and throughout his life, he and mother Smith, they'll live with children. They're compelled to live with children or grandchildren because they can't even afford to live anywhere. I mean, this family is so poor. And so, knowing that about Joseph Smith and his family, tell me a little bit about what you think Joseph Smith must have thought when he saw those gold plates.
Shilo: He would have been in a huge temptation, to be honest, because if I'm thinking today of my family who are in desperate need... If I had opportunity to bless my family with all this money, I mean, that would be really hard to choose between helping your family out or following the Lord's commandments.
Jalyn: I think that's why, too, this always hits me, because you think of Joseph Smith sitting down translating this... When he gets to that part that says, "And the person who's bringing it forward shall be blessed," I think that that had to give him lot of solace because of all the stuff he had to go through and endure for other people trying to get the plates. Quick question...
Tammy: Ah great. Just kidding.
[laughter]
Tammy: Go ahead, Jalyn.
Jalyn: Did Joseph Smith translate this in the exact order that we read it today? I mean, there's been other allusions to it throughout the book, of like, where he knows he's the one doing it, you know, like, he didn't have this to kind of sustain him right from the first.
Tammy: Correct. There is an idea, a belief that he actually did not translate it from first Nephi to end, that he translated a section of Mosiah first, Mosiah to Alma, then he came back, so, yeah, I don't know when he would have translated this, or what day or anything.
Jalyn: It could have been. Yeah, it could have been.
Tammy: Great point. That's a great point, Jalyn. I like that. Shilo, you're agreeing, or do you think something?
Shilo: When I had my first lesson with the missionaries, they were so inspired that they didn't actually invite me to read the book of Mormon. They invited me to read Joseph Smith History. And so, I went home and I read his account, and I remember feeling such an overwhelming filling of the Spirit, and everything that he was saying, I felt like I could relate to in so many ways, and I gained the testimony of him being the prophet, and so because I read his history, I gained the testimony of him being a prophet. Then I knew that everything else was true, and so I was baptized quite quickly because of my testimony of the prophet Joseph Smith.
Tammy: Wow.
Shilo: So I just have so much love for the prophet and for what he has done.
Jalyn: I'm just curious as to what in the Joseph Smith story that resonated with you.
Tammy: He was searching and so was I. He was going to different churches, and so I was I trying to find the answer.
Shilo: And he had the experience in the woods where he was overwhelmed by darkness, and he felt the bad spirit, and I had that experience too, but I've never, ever felt like anyone could ever relate to that experience I had until I read Joseph Smith's history and I read what he went through, and I remember reading that and crying 'cause I was like "Wow, this has happened to me." Like I'm reading an account of Joseph that I feel so much in my soul that I can relate to so much of... Of what he has said, and there's also like a verse on there that I can't remember it by heart, but he says from a young age, the adversary was working against him, and I have felt like that in my own life as well, so I just felt like his words were so familiar and speaking right to me. The Lord was speaking to me through his word, so I was able to gain a testimony. So, Yeah.
Jalyn: Well, that is such an amazing story. I've never heard of that... Of someone like reading the Joseph Smith story. Those missionaries were totally...
Tammy: They were inspired.
Shilo: Inspired, yeah.
Jalyn: That is amazing!
Tammy: That's incredible. Thank you for sharing that, Shilo. Thanks for asking those questions Jalyn, that was cool. That was a cool moment. So Moroni's words have been fulfilled, and we have seen that, and so in the next segment, we're going to read about another fulfillment of Moroni's words and what it has to do with the world that we are living in today.
Segment 3
Tammy: Alright ladies. Think back to your younger self, back to you when you're in high school or junior high. That's the kind of time frame I'm thinking about. So if you could go back in time, what warning would you tell a younger you that would benefit you today?
Jalyn: I would tell myself not to worry about what other people think of me.
Tammy: Well that's a good warning. What about you, Shilo? What warning would you give younger you?
Shilo: The first thing that came to mind was get better friends.
[laughter]
Tammy: Sure! Good answer!
Shilo: High school friends aren't listening, but yeah, get better friends.
Tammy: Okay. I love it. So, think about that... Those of you listening, what warning would you give? That is exactly what Moroni is gonna do for us in Mormon chapter 8, because he's talking to us, so I really like how personal this gets. Shilo, will you read verses 35 and 36?
Shilo: Behold, I speak unto you as if you were present, but yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing and I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts. And there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of inequities; and your churches, yeah, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
Tammy: And now skip to 38 and read that one too.
Shilo: O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies, because of the praise of the world?
Tammy: Thank you. So Moroni has shown us. So he's seeing us and he's like, "Oh, let me tell you, I see you, and here's what you look like." So I'm gonna give you some warnings that are gonna prepare you. We're gonna section off in our Scriptures, three major warnings. So the first one is verses 17 through 22, so this is Moroni, and he's warning those who condemn or oppose the Book of Mormon and the Lord's work of salvation, so don't oppose the Book of Mormon, is what those verses are about. Then, we have verses 23 through 25. Moroni's encouraging us to read the words of Isaiah, then he's further explaining that the profits of the Book of Mormon had prayed for their brethren, meaning the Lamanites and their descendants for the person who would bring forth the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith. And then we have the third warning. Now, this is the one that I asked you Jalyn and Shilo to prepare for, because I really like how it starts out. So, in Mormon Chapter 8, verses 26 through 33, many times in the verses, he's gonna say, "It'll come in a day. In that day, it shall come in a day," and I asked you guys to look for how Moroni describes the days when the Book of Mormon will come forth. What did you find in those verses?
Jalyn: So, in 26, it says that when miracles are done away, in 27, and the blood of Saint shall cry unto the Lord because of secret combinations, 28 talks about churches and their leaders being lifted up in the pride of their hearts and teaching them, 29 fires, tempests, vapors of smoke in foreign lands, wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes in diverse places. These sound exactly like our day.
Tammy: Yeah, and the word diverse there means various or several, just in case you were wondering, so various, several places, which I think we've seen in 2020.
Jalyn: Mm-hmm.
Tammy: What'd you find Shilo?
Shilo: I just have a question. When it says, "There shall be many who will say, do this or do that," who is Moroni talking about?
Tammy: Oh, that's a great question, in verse 31, and there will be many who will say do this or do that, and it mattereth not. That's such a good question. So, this goes back to the verse or Scripture where it talks about eat, drink and be married. For tomorrow, we die.
Shilo: Right.
Tammy: You're gonna have so many people say, oh, it doesn't even really matter. Listen, God loves everybody. Do what you want. Covenants really aren't important. All of that different stuff. So did that help?
Shilo: Yeah, yeah it did, because when I was reading that and when you asked us to read those Scriptures, that one just stuck out, and I thought about how like I said before, like I'm not surrounded by many members, and so... I think the world is just so... It's full of the noise and there's multiple voices everywhere and opinions everywhere in social media and the news, and it just gets like noisy, and for me, I feel like I'm bombarded with opinions on Christians all the time, like, how are you a part of a church with a racist history? That's one of the questions that I'm asked a lot, or how are you part of a religion when religion colonized indigenous people?
Shilo: Or how are you part of a church that doesn't like LGBT people? This is what's asked of me, it's not what I'm saying, and when you start to kinda listen to these voices, you distance yourself from the Lord, and I think it can be very easy to listen to the multiple opinions and voices around us, but for me... I think this year has been a really hard year with COVID and everything that's happening, and losing the church community with Sunday church not being an option to go to, and so it starts to feel quite isolating and you start to feel quite lonely in those times.
Shilo: And so when you're bombarded with these voices and you're not feeling the spirit as much it... It can be hard. So I guess, I think maybe I was going through a bit of a faith crisis and thinking okay, maybe what they're saying is true. Why am I part of this church? One Sunday I woke up and I felt so disheartened with everything, but I went, I hopped into my car, and I drove for three hours, and I just spoke to heavenly father the whole time. So it was like a three-hour prayer, I was just talking with him, and he brought back to remembrance of all the experiences that I've had with my saviour, and those are the experiences that I can't deny. I can't deny the power of Jesus Christ and his divinity and what he's done for not only me, but for all the people that he's blessed, because I've made a decision to follow him. So I felt like he also gave me counsel as well, and what I need to do in order to make sure that those voices aren't shaking my testimony, and he counseled me to always put on the armor of God, to make sure that I'm reading the Scriptures every day, to make sure that I'm doing everything I can so that when those opinions come, they bounce off and that I'm strong in my testimony of the saviour. Yeah.
Tammy: That is an incredible experience and... We'll go to the very beginning of verse 31, because it's exactly in line with what you shared, this is interesting, it says, "Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions." So Shilo, I wanna talk about this word 'pollutions' in light of what you just said, with all of your faith crisis that you had and the questions that people are asking 'cause I think we all have experienced that in our lives, especially in the last couple of years, just all of this noise, which can seem like pollutants or pollutions. There's a quote by elder Joe J. Christensen that was given in general conference. And he talks about how we deal with polluted physical environment like rain, smog, toxic waste, but then he says there's another kind of pollution that is more dangerous, the moral and the spiritual pollution. And so he quotes elder Boyd K. Packer, and Shilo, can you please read?
Shilo: Elder Boyd K. Packer said, "As we test the moral environment, we find the pollution index is spiraling upward." The Apostle Paul foresaw that in the last days perilous times shall come. And speaking of the last days, the prophet Moroni declared, "Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the Earth." Sadly, the effects of this great pollution are perhaps most evident in the mass media, films, television, and popular music. Of this, Senator Robert D. Byrd said, "If we in this nation continue to sow the images of murder, violence, drug abuse, perversion, and pornography before the eyes of millions of children, year after year and day after day, we should not be surprised if the foundations of our society rot away as if from leprosy."
Tammy: Thank you. So I wanna know, ladies, in your opinion, what pollution would you say is having the greatest impact on us today then based on that quote we read?
Jalyn: Oh, social media.
Tammy: Yeah?
Jalyn: Yeah. When Shilo asked about who the many are, to me, I'm like you Tammy, I'm very visual and all I can see just the people in the big spacious building, and they're calling out and they're taunting those of us who are trying to lay hold on the word of God, and I just think that there is so much with social media and what's... The information age is great, and it's every bit as much of a curse as it is wonderful. So I think that it's hard to weed out what is the truth when you have all this information coming at you.
Tammy: Yes, definitely.
Shilo: And another thing that I feel like is pollution is also the news, which is ironic 'cause I'm a journalist, but I just don't watch the news, I have one news source that I listen to because it can be so toxic. And when I watch the news, I don't feel the spirit and I don't feel uplifted. I think it's important to be informed, but we need to be careful of the media that we consume and how it's influencing us, and what we're thinking and our opinions.
Tammy: Definitely. I would say the thing that pollutes the most in my life, and maybe even in my home is, are all of the streaming devices, we have all of them. Thinking right now, I cannot believe all of the pollutants that it has brought into my life 'cause I just sit down to watch a show, and the next thing I know, I mean it's... The last couple of months, especially this year, just to find an outlet, 'cause I love movies more than anything in the world. Oh my gosh, I love movies. I have missed movies so much, and so I've used these streaming devices and it has not been to my benefit at all times, and so I think for me, I think I'm gonna get rid of that pollutant. That's the one for me, definitely. But as helpless as this sounds, 'cause I know it might seem kind of hopeless, there is hope in Mormon chapter 8. Let's go to verse 33, and I want you to read this for us Jalyn. Mormon chapter 8, verse 33 is going to give us a little bit of hope of what we can do then to get rid of all the pollution.
Jalyn: O ye wicked and perverse and stiff-necked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God, for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.
Tammy: "Look unto the revelations of God," highlight that, I'm gonna give you a cross-reference. Put Mormon chapter 9 verse 7. We're gonna see what the revelations are. So Jalyn, will you please read Mormon chapter 9, verse 7.
Jalyn: And again I speak unto you who deny the revelations of God, and say that they are done away, that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpretation of tongues.
Jalyn: You know what, read verse 8 too 'cause I forgot. This is the best part.
Jalyn: Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ. Yea, he has not read the Scriptures; if so, he does not understand them.
Tammy Thank you. So don't deny the revelations of God, don't deny all of this goodness or don't deny the gospel of Jesus Christ. Here's what Neal A. Maxwell had to say about the revelations of God, and I'll read this. "Only in the acceptance of the revelations of God can bring both direction and correction and, in turn, bring a brightness of hope. Real hope does not automatically spring eternal unless it is connected with eternal things." So in the next segment, you guys, we're gonna see how the revelations of God and hope directly connect us to eternal things and really will connect us to Jesus Christ.
Segment 4
Tammy
All right, so we're halfway through the podcast and we just want to let all of our friends know that Shilo in New Zealand, she just got kicked out of the room where she was originally recording. And so now she's in a new room. So it's gonna sound a little bit different, like a little bit of an echo. So, if you notice something different about the sound, that's what it is. So Shilo, you have mentioned that you are a convert to the Church but here's what I want to know, I want your story. Tell us how you met the missionaries, how old were you, just all your stuff. Hit it.
Shilo
Before the Church, I was a completely different person.
So when I joined the Church, I was 23. And in my 20s, I was like any university student in the world. I was, you know, unstable and lost, and drinking and partying and just doing all those things that people do for fun. But it was also really lost. And I always felt like there was something missing in my life. And I woke up one morning and was like, "Surely there's more to life than this." And as soon as I had that thought, it was like Heavenly Father moved mountains everywhere in my life to make sure that He put people in my life to help me, to introduce me to Jesus.
So what happened after that was I was working part time, I was at an university and my manager, she moved from a different city into the workplace that I was at. At that time, I was going through a really hard time. But one day, I walk into work and my manager took one look at me. She said, "Are you okay?" And I was like, "No, I'm not." And we went to the back room and she said to me, "I just want you to know that Heavenly Father loves you very much." And I had never heard the name "Heavenly Father." So when I heard the name "Heavenly Father," it felt so familiar. And that time, I just felt something. I felt loved. I felt the Spirit.
And so I say to her, "I want to know who Heavenly Father is." And she gave me a book to read called "The Pursuit of Happiness" by Elder Ballard. And so I read that and I was like, "Oh, wow, okay. That's awesome." Like, you know, "Sounds like a good church." I’m not converted, but you know, it's a good church."
But then, I began to listen to the multiple voices that I just spoke about, and friends, family, people, saying, "Don't join that church. That's a cult." And it was funny, though, because people were telling me these things but it didn't make sense that someone so beautiful as my manager was all of things that people were saying. It was like a disconnect between what people were saying and who my manager was, and her character.
So anyway, I went on my own pursuit, just like Joseph Smith, and I went and I visited churches because I now wanted to know who God was. I was waiting for something, like anything, to happen. Like maybe Heavenly Father would tell me, "This is the church, you know? But I would leave these churches feeling empty. And then so I went home and I just say, "I give up." Like, "I've done all that I can and there's nothing that you've shown me or you told me."
And I went to sleep and I dreamt of two women who I believe are my ancestors. And they told me that they'd been sent from God. And they prayed for me. And when they prayed for me, I felt the most beautiful and the most overwhelming feeling that I've ever felt in my life. And I realized that this is what I had been searching for my entire life. And so, after that dream, I woke up and the first person that came to mind was my manager. And so I called her immediately and I said, "Hey, I just had this dream. What do I do? Like I know God is real, I felt Him, you know, so much." And she said, "Come to my house and meet the missionaries. And I went over to her house, and we sang, "I Am a Child of God," and her 5-year-old daughter said the opening prayer, and as soon as she said the opening prayer, that feeling I had felt in the dream that I had, it came straight back into my heart like a, like a dart. And I was like, "I've been searching all this time and this is where Heavenly Father wants me to be."
You know, because of that and because of the testimony that I gained of Joseph Smith, I was baptized within weeks. And since then, it's been seven years ago since then, Heavenly Father has just completely transformed me into a different person, into a new person. And He has taken me on an adventure, you know, He has done miracles in my life since then, so I'm so grateful.
Tammy
Wow.
That's incredible.
Jalyn
That's a great story. That's amazing.
Tammy
It is such a great story. And you know, it's interesting because when I was thinking of having you share your story at this part of the segment, I'm like, "I don't really know her story." I don't know your story at all. And it's just interesting how it plays into this verse. It's who Moroni is speaking to in Mormon, chapter nine, verse one, so Shilo, will you read verse one?
Shilo
And now I speak also concerning those who do not believe in Christ.
Tammy
Okay, so he's speaking to anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ. And he's speaking to those who maybe did at one point, but have no longer believed in Christ. I'm going to read verses two through five in Mormon, chapter nine. And I want you guys to look for words or phrases that describe how the people who have chosen not to believe in Christ, and have not repented of their sins feel when they see Him, okay.
2 Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation—behold, when the Lord shall come, yea, even that great day when the earth shall be rolled together as a scroll, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, yea, in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God—then will ye say that there is no God?
3 Then will ye longer deny the Christ, or can ye behold the Lamb of God? Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws?
4 Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell.
5 For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you.
Okay, what are some words or phrases that you might how other people feel?
Jalyn
You just kind of feel that little like, "Let the earth swallow me up now. I'm so uncomfortable. I can't, I'm not ready to be here."
Shilo
And you know, this fire in the last part where it says "it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you." I'm like, "Oh, what is that? What does it feel like? Am I gonna burst into flames? What are the flames?"
Tammy
Yeah, totally. Well, and when I read these, they just seem so like, awful. And mean kind of like, I feel like Moroni's just really coming down on the people who don't believe in Christ. But I appreciated so much how Hugh Nibley turns the words a little bit. He's speaking specifically of verse four where it says, "It would be more miserable for you to dwell with God than it would be to dwell with the damned souls in hell." Like, as harsh as those words seem, I really like how you Hugh Nibley said this, Jalyn, will you read this quote for us, please?
Jalyn
“He's going to give you the best you want. You're getting let off as easy as [possible]. You'd prefer hell a thousand times so that you won't have to [be in his presence], so that's what you get, if you want it. You know the kind of people you like and you want to be with. Everyone's going to get the easiest possible sentence here. You'll be far "more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God," so they're not going to make you. You'll say thank heaven for that. God, you're being very kind, not making me dwell here. There's justice and mercy all the way here. Notice he says we would much prefer "to dwell with the damned souls in hell [they're you're people].”
Tammy
Is that's so great.
Jalyn
Well, I wonder too, when it says "And now I speak concerning those who do not believe in Christ." It seems to me like if I'm going to be wracked with a consciousness of guilt and everything, I would have had to have been presented with Christ. I would have already had to have had that opportunity, and then denied it.
So it's not like Shilo's case where she didn't even know. She, you know, it's not going to be those people who'd never even had the opportunity. It's those people who had the opportunity, heard about it, and went, "No."
Tammy
Exactly. Let's put a cross reference to that. So it's Doctrine and Covenants, section 137, verse eight, and nine. And it says:
8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;
9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.
And so it just goes back like you're gonna get the best possible case scenario. It's justice and mercy all the way. And as frightening as verse five says, where it says, "ye shall be brought to see your nakedness." Highlight that word right there because you think, like, immediately think of being naked, right? And I wrote next to that verse, "I just want to be covered." I don't want to be naked before, like, I want to be covered. And it goes back to our definition of the word Atonement in Hebrew, which is Kaphar, which means to cover.
And so when you're being shown with all your nakedness, it's because you didn't apply the Atoning blood of Jesus Christ. You didn't take advantage of that. In fact, Shilo, read verse six for us, go back to Mormon chapter nine. And let's look at verse six because this is where it changed. And this is what you said, Jalyn, that these people who don't believe in Christ, they're not the Shilos of the world. They're people who had the chance. So go ahead and read verse six for us, Shilo.
Shilo
6 O then ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day
Tammy
Thank you. When it says, "found spotless, pure fair," highlight the word fair. And there's a great cross reference to put above that, that fair and white has to do with Isaiah chapter one, verse 18. And that verse says, "though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." That pure, fair and white has to do with your inward appearance, not your outward. You become clean you become pure, you become fair and white. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, your sins are gone. And so that's inward, not outward, has nothing to do with your skin tone.
So I want to know something specific from both of you then because it talks a lot about being uncomfortable when Christ comes, what makes you comfortable? What's something specific that you do in your life that is preparing you to be comfortable when He comes again?
Jalyn
I think it's exactly what Shilo said when she quoted, Sherri Dew, just say how can you serve a master that you don't know? So what makes me comfortable is studying and learning of Christ and knowing that I will recognize that that's who it is.
And, to me, the comfort is through the Atonement, that there's no way through my own actions that I could ever get there because if it's just me standing up there, I'm like, "Throw me down with the damned sales. The damned souls. Throw me down with those people because that's, those are my people. Those are my people. But it is going to be through the Atonement of Christ. It's going to be the fact that I constantly strive to make that Atonement real in my life and apply it in my life to fully accept Jesus Christ and His mission.
Tammy
One-hundred percent.
Shilo
I thought about my mission, and I thought about something that Elder Anderson said, at a mission conference. He said to always keep the name of the Savior on your lips. And when I think about how many times I speak of Christ, it's not enough. And maybe it makes me uncomfortable but when I do speak of Him, I feel joy, I feel happy, and I feel better than comfortable. I feel, you know, I feel Him with me. And that brings me the greatest joy,
Tammy
One-hundred percent. And if you're speaking of Him, you're remembering Him. That is wonderful.
We just spent this whole segment talking about Jesus Christ, and talking about the unbeliever who has had a chance but has chosen not to believe. And so in the next segment, we're going to talk about the believers, and one specific benefit to being one.
Segment 5
Tammy
Okay, so I have to just tell you, the reason I began this episode with my testimony in Spanish is because it's proof that miracles still exist. So I got called to serve my mission to Fresno, California, English speaking. And I had been serving for 13 months out of my 18. And at 13 months, my mission president called me into his office, and he said, "Do you know Spanish?" And I said, "I can order a taco and I can ask where the bathroom is, that is my seventh-grade Spanish." And he said, "Well, we don't have any more sisters who can speak Spanish," because the group of them had gone home. And we were like, a couple months shy for getting any new sister speaking Spanish. And so he says, "Will you speak Spanish?" And I'm like, "You bet. I'll give it a shot." So he gave me a blessing. And he gave me a Book of Mormon in Spanish. And he put me with my companion Sister, Kristen Camblin from Arizona. Hi, Kristin! And she taught me to speak Spanish. Every morning, we'd have a Spanish lesson and then I would read the Book of Mormon in Spanish every morning.
And at the end of the month, right before she left, right before transfers, and she was going home, and I would be one of the only Spanish-speaking sisters in the mission, she said, "Okay, we're going to go on splits now. So I'm going to go with this other sister, and I'm going to send you with sister—" I can't remember her name, but she was not English speaking. She only spoke Spanish and Chowchilla, California. So I got on my splits, and this sister just started speaking to me in Spanish like I had any idea what she was talking about. And I learned real quick that if you said, "Oh, si, bueno, bueno," (Oh yes, good, good) that it made it sound like you know what you're talking about. So we walked all the way to the discussion, and I just kept going, "Oh, si, bueno, bueno." I had no idea what she was saying.
We get to the appointment. We walk in the house of this man. We sit down and the two of them are speaking nonstop, and I can't understand anything they're saying. And she looks at me and all I do is say, "Oración?" which means prayer. And that's all I said was, "Prayer?" And so we start with a prayer, she offers the opening prayer. And as soon as she said, "Amen," I look up and I speak fluent Spanish. The entire discussion I did not miss a beat, bore my testimony about Joseph Smith. This man is weeping in his chair. And he testified that he believed that what I said about Joseph Smith was true. He agreed to read the Book of Mormon and he wanted to be baptized. I committed him to baptism on the very first discussion. You don't do that. Nobody's ever done that. That's absurd. And we ended with a closing prayer. And as soon as we started walking home, she started speaking Spanish to me, and I did not understand a word. I'm like, "Oh, si, bueno, bueno." Couldn't understand anything, but I spoke fluent Spanish the last five months of my mission. Every time I needed to speak Spanish, it was a complete miracle, total miracle. I can't even, like I look back at that, I just think there's no other way to explain how in the world I'm going to learn how to speak fluent Spanish, and open a Spanish branch, by the way, be part of that, in California.
And so when we talk about these miracle stories I asked both of you, do either one of you have a miracle story? Like, there's no other way to explain it. What do you got? Shilo You're shaking yes.
Shilo
Yeah. Um, it's funny, you're story reminds me of one of my companions said to me, "I know the gift of tongues is real because usually your Chinese is so bad. But when we go into the lesson, it's perfect. But usually, it's terrible." So I was kind of like that back-handed compliment. But that reminded me of my mission.
But I think the miracle that I really wanted to share is also when I was on my mission as well. Like I said earlier, as I was trying to wrap my head around the gospel in English, and to be able to speak in Chinese, it was so hard. And I'd heard about the gift of tongues and I thought what happens was you go on a mission and as soon as you land, "Oh, wow, I can speak Chinese." But that didn't happen. And I remember just crying like for six months and wondering why He, Heavenly Father, would send me to Hong Kong of all places. Why didn't I go to an English-speaking place where I'm able to connect with people better because I struggled with the language so much.
And so we fast forward to the end of my mission, and coming out of the plane and I remember walking through the airport, and I could hear so many conversations in Chinese. And I felt Heavenly Father say to me, "Shilo, your missions has only just begun."
Tammy
Oh, wow.
Shilo
And I was like, "What? I just spent 18 months, what do you mean?" But what he meant was that New Zealand has a huge population of Chinese people. And so everywhere I go, I speak Chinese maybe multiple times a day. And so it brings me to the best, the greatest miracle that I've witnessed, from learning Chinese and going on my mission. I went to a hot pot restaurant. I love hot pots. My favorite food.
Tammy
What's a hot pot?
Jalyn
Yeah, what's that?
Shilo
Oh, gosh. Okay, so it's a big pot of soup, like hot soup, and you cook like your food in it. So like your meats and your vegetables and you cook it yourself. So it's kind of like boiling.
Tammy
Okay.
Shilo
So, you know, the waitress was Chinese. And it's the same thing that happens all the time, like, "Oh, Ni hao," (hello) and she's like, "How do you speak Chinese?" And I said, "Oh, I served a mission fro The Church of Jesus Christ of Latteriday Saints. Have you heard of Jesus Christ?" So it's the first thing I asked them. She said, "No." And I actually love it when they say no, because I'm like, "Oh," I get excited, because I get to share about my best friend, Jesus Christ. And I'm like, "Oh, wow. Let me tell you about him." And she was like, "Oh, wow, that's amazing." I got a contact number. And, you know, we would meet and I would share with her, you know, bit by bit, and then she said, "Hey, I have an English test coming up and I'm scared because I failed this like three or four times already. I don't know what to do, how can you help me with my English?" And I said, "Yeah, I can help you with your English. But, you know, what would be even greater is relying on Jesus Christ and getting help from him. And one way to do that is through prayer, and fasting." And she said, "What's that?" And so I told her about prayer and about fasting, and I said, "You need to do the work. And you need to make sure that you do the work. But if you pray and you fast, you know, with all your heart, then Heavenly Father will help you during the test to bring to remembrance the things that you've studied. He will give you comfort. He'll help you feel, you know, less anxious, and he will really helped you in that test." And she, she said, "Okay."
So I said to her "I'll fast with you and the elders and we'll fast with you, we'll all fast together. And so we fasted for her and then she sent me this message, and can I read it out to you?
Tammy
Yes, please.
Shilo
Every time I read that, I sort of cry. She sent this to me, she said, "I just can't stop crying. Shilo, this is real. I can finally feel the existence of him and the strength from you and the elders, I love you so much. Thank you for praying for me and fasting for me."
And then after that, she got baptized and she moved to Boston, she became a temple worker. But as I was thinking about this and about miracles, I realized it wasn't the result that's a miracle, but it was the process in itself. And the fact that the miracle being that I get to be an instrument in helping him, Heavenly Father's children that never got the opportunity in China to know about Jesus Christ. That's a miracle. And I don't know what every Chinese person that I have spoken to will do. But what I've taught, I've told them about Jesus Christ, it's their agency, it's up to them, and it's, you know, their path. But I planted a seed and I think that's a miracle in itself. Because in China, you don't get many opportunities to learn about Jesus Christ. But they've come here and so Heavenly Father has given me a superpower, almost, that I'm able to connect with them in their hearts and to be able to see the fruits of Sarah, that's her name, be baptized and feeling Heavenly Father rejoice that is a miracle.
Jalyn
Talk about an angel on earth, like that is, you will never like, you can stand squarely before Jesus Christ and say, "I spoke your name." Because, to me, that is so, that takes so much guts to just end that sentence with, "Do you know who Jesus Christ is?" You just floated in the sentence like it was no big deal. And I'm like, that really takes guts. I want to be like Shilo when I grow up.
Tammy
WWSD, what would Shilo do?
Thank you for sharing that miracle. That was so great. Jalyn, you got one?
Jalyn
No, after that?
Tammy
I know you have to keep following Shilo, I'm so sorry.
Jalyn
There's nothing. There's nothing that compares.
Tammy
You're ridiculous. Okay then, you can read our scripture, go to Mormon, chapter nine. Let's see what all of this has to do with Mormon nine. Go to Mormon chapter nine, we're going to read verse 10.
Jalyn
10 And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.
Tammy
Okay, now, to the outside of verses 11 all the way until you get to verse 21, write on the outside of your margin, "the doctrine of miracles." This whole chapter is about miracles. It talks about all the miracles, why miracles happen, how miracles happen, you could do a whole episode just on this section, the doctrine of miracles.
And let's just remember, this is a very bold doctrine that's coming from a man who is alone, no family, no friends, he's fleeing for his life, hoping to escape death, and basically waiting to bury the plates and die. And here he is saying, "But you know what, God is a God of miracles." And I'm just thinking, "What miracle is he thinking of?" Everything he'd hoped for is gone, family, friends, loved ones. And so he's teaching us here that this is a God of miracles.
So in light of this, there is a little bit of tendency, especially for me, to sort of be the cynic. And to kind of think that for every miracle story, there are about 100 non-miracle stories, right? And sometimes things just don't turn out the way you want them to. Sometimes you don't get "the miracle" that you had hoped for.
And for like the past 14 years, I have been reminded of the miracle that someone didn't get as I looked into the eyes of these two little girls that I raised. As I raised them and they didn't get the miracle of their mom being healed from breast cancer. I can remember my husband telling a story one time about how they were fasting and praying that mom Michelle would not die of breast cancer.
So I had this thought, I'm going to ask my oldest daughter, she is 24 years old, she's up in college, to write for me. I asked her this simple question. She didn't know what I was really talking about. But I said, "Would you be willing to share your thoughts and feelings with me about how you've resolved this miracle in your life? Or the lack thereof? And where you're at right now with it? We haven't really talked a lot about this. So I didn't know she was going to say. And then she sent this to me, so I'm going to read it and and try not to cry.
She said: "Growing up, we were always taught that if we prayed for something, and it was a righteous desire, God would answer our prayers. We read stories in the scriptures about miracles that happen. And then we hear people bear testimony about their own miracles. So when I was nine years old, and was told that my mom's cancer had spread, and that she was not going to make it, I had no worries. I knew that if I prayed and asked for a miracle, that miracle would come. And that is exactly what I did. I prayed long and hard with every ounce of the 9-year-old faith that I had that my mom would not die.
"Unfortunately, my prayer was not answered. On October 13, 2005, I woke up to find out that my mom died. I was absolutely devastated. How could this happen? I told my dad that I was done praying because Heavenly Father obviously did not answer prayers. Here I was a 9-year-old little girl and my faith was completely shattered.
"I struggled for years to come to terms with this, and I mean years, about 12 to be exact. Over time, I came to understand that the miracle was the trial because of the way that it helped me grow. The miracle was that I have the knowledge of eternal families and of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The miracle was all the things that came after." I'm a wreck. "My dad got remarried to a wonderful woman, (who is the host of this podcast, haha)," that's what she wrote. "They had my two little sisters together. And those three people are some pretty dang big miracles in my life.
Eventually, I healed. I no longer carry around that burden of misery. Now, don't get me wrong, I still struggle, and I miss my mom every day. But I came to recognize that the many miracles that come from that incredibly hard trial, I may not have gotten the miracle I wanted. But I definitely got the miracles I needed. I just had to be willing to see them."
I love that she wrote that. And I, she wrote me back. She's like, "Is that exactly? Is that what you were hoping for?" And I was, like, "Gosh, Amma yes, even better."
Jalyn
When you asked me if I have a miracle story, like my miracle stories are just those small things that like, we may look at it, it's exactly what Anna said of like, it may not be the miracle you wanted. But I really think when we get to the other side, and we have that eternal perspective, we're going to be able to look and see like all those miracles that really did happen in our lives, and what that miracle was.
I just love how Moroni says that in verse 25, because the miracle is, if you believe in his name, he will confirm all his words, and what do his words teach us? That we are eternal. That she'll be with her mom again. We will be able to look back and see exactly how those miracles came to fruition in our life, even though it wasn't how we thought it was gonna be, it'll be exactly what it needed to be. And that miracle is that we have God's words, and that you can cling to that faith when those big miracles that we want are happening, like that is the miracle.
Tammy
Well, and I think it perfectly, I mean, Shilo, you summed it up perfectly. And I even wrote it right here. And it's in my scriptures when you said that, "The miracle wasn't the result. It was the process." And I think that is so profound and perfect for this idea of miracles in our lives. That it really isn't the result. It's the process. That's where the miracle is found.
For those of you out there who are wondering where your miracle is, it's right there. It's right there. You're in the miracle, you are in the middle of the miracle. I do believe that with all of my heart.
So in the next segment, we are going to study and read the goodness that comes from believing in this God of miracles and in His Son, Jesus Christ.
Segment 6
Tammy
I just want to jump right into Moroni's teachings. So everyone go with me to Mormon chapter nine. And we're gonna look at verses 26, 27, and 28. Just three verses, but they are packed with so much goodness. Let's just read these verses so everyone can hear them, and then I want us to talk about them. So, Shilo, we'll start with you.
Shilo
26 And now, behold, who can stand against the works of the Lord? Who can deny his sayings? Who will rise up against the almighty power of the Lord? Who will despise the works of the Lord? Who will despise the children of Christ? Behold, all ye who are despisers of the works of the Lord, for ye shall wonder and perish.
27 O then despise not, and wonder not, but hearken unto the words of the Lord, and ask the Father in the name of Jesus for what things soever ye shall stand in need. Doubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old, and come unto the Lord with all your heart, and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him.
28 Be wise in the days of your probation; strip yourselves of all uncleanness; ask not, that ye may consume it on your lusts, but ask with a firmness unshaken, that ye will yield to no temptation, but that ye will serve the true and living God.
Tammy
Thank you. All right. What do you guys have? What did you mark? What stood out to you?
Jalyn
For me, I cross referenced it with Romans, chapter eight. This is one group of scriptures that I've kind of set to memory. And in Romans chapter eight verses 35 and then in 37 through 39, it says:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And just in the days we're in now, like it just describes that persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword, principalities, things going on with our government, powers other things, you just, who can do that? All that noise that Shilo talked about, no one is able to separate you from the love of God.
Tammy
That's awesome. Sorry, I'm just writing stuff down. So much good stuff.
Keep going, what else? What do you got Shilo?
Shilo
Um, for me, it was verse 27 that stood out to me, especially the last part, "come onto the Lord with all your heart and, one, workout your own salvation, two. But what about how COVID and what's happened in the last year has given us this opportunity to rely on the Savior. That's like, Heavenly Father has taken away a lot of the source of what we rely on, which is a committee of church. And it's like, we can no longer rely on other people for our testimony of Jesus Christ. And we need to in our own homes, worship the Savior.
So I think about me again, and locked down. Okay, so I, my circumstance is so much different to say, a family with 10 children, right? And, they got, you know, like, six sons that bless the sacrament and they have each other. Heavenly Father is mindful that my circumstance is different. I live with my dad at the moment, and I don't take the sacrament. But he knows that I give all my heart to Him. So my Sunday might look different, but I get help from the Lord. And so through personal revelation, I'm able to understand, okay, knowing what you want me to do, this is what I need to give up. In order to give all that I can to you. I'm still learning, but it's something that I'm trying to do.
Jalyn
I love that you bring that up, though, because I always, I read this, that exact paragraph you said, because I always wonder what it means, "and begin as in times of old." So it says, "doubt not but be believing and begin as in times of old." And it's, I mean, that just made me think of that, when you were, you actually just explained it by saying like, "It's not the culture, like we have to turn back to our family."
You think of the gospel in early days and it's not like everybody went to a big church, and it was the social hour, and you have the Tuesday night activities and all that good stuff like, begin as in times of old. Go back, it's in your family, it's in your home, it's your personal connection with Jesus Christ. So you just explained that for me perfectly.
Tammy
Well, and as you were saying that too Jalyn, and I love what both of you brought up because that's what stood out to me was the very end of verse 28. Where it says, "but that you will serve the true and living God." And so going back to as in times of old, where it was just God and Adam and Eve, that's it. And they had a relationship with him and with Jesus Christ.
And that phrase, "the true and living God," it is so important. There's so many great cross references, and I'm going to put these in all of our show notes. But you're going to find that phrase, "the true and living God" in Alma, you're going to find it when Amulek is speaking to Zeezrom. You're going to find it in first Nephi, and then three other references in Alma. And then the one I love is against David and Goliath. Like, here's David, he's going to take on Goliath, and all he can talk about is how he's going to do it in the name of the living God. That's it. All he's talking about is the living God, not at one point does he bring Goliath into his reasoning or thought process like, "Well, but he is kind of big, so I'm not sure." It's the whole time he's like, "Oh, no, the true and living God's gonna help me do this, the living God."
And so it made me think about, because I believe that he is true, and I do believe he is living. And I think one of the things Satan attacks with our doubts where it says, "doubt not but be believing" is he has this doubt in a higher power. He has us doubt and not believe in a God and if he can get us with that, like "That's not really real," then everything else just kind of falls. Like it just is the domino effect of that. So to believe in a true and living God is everything for me. That's what stood out to me in those three verses.
So here's what I want to know. What proof do both of you have, that God is true and that God is living? How do you know he is? Jalyn, I'm just gonna ask you, will you please share your air conditioner story?
Jalyn
Oh, yes, I thought of that about why that was one of my miracles.
Tammy
You're supposed to share that story in this episode, because if there's ever a story that I've ever heard, it is proof that God is true, and that he is living and he is aware of his children.
Jalyn
Yeah. And these are the miracles that happen in my life. For me it is these little moments, these daily moments where I know that God is with me in church and in my life.
So I'm single living in my, I had bought a townhouse. And I was just having those, like that loneliness you talk about, Shilo, of, you know, I probably your same age. And being in a singles ward. And like, I just felt like, I kind of was just feeling like a loser. Like nothing is just kind of happening.
And, you know, I lost my dad when I was in high school. I didn't have a dad I could call. And I knew the only dad I could rely on was was Heavenly Father. And so that's who I had to call first. So I was just pleading with the Lord, I was having that moment where you're just crying before the Lord of like, "Oh, this is so hard." And like, I just need to feel some relief and some peace, and my air conditioner had gone out and it was the middle of summer. It's totally hot in Utah. And just at the end, I just kind of said in passing, "And oh, yeah, if you could just please fix the air conditioner. That'd be really great, too, because that's stressing me out." And the minute I said "Amen," the air conditioner kicked on. And it hadn't been working for like two days, and all the sudden the air conditioner just kicked on.
And it was just kind of that little like, "Yeah, he's still here. He's still in charge." And so what I so related to the whole, like, when you said miracles are the process, like God still expects you to get up and to take action because the end of the story is after the miracle is that two days later, the air conditioning went back off again. Because I didn't get up and call the repairman because it just turned back on. The repairman comes he literally hooks two wires together. And that was it. That was all those wrong? Okay like, 75 bucks. And I was like, I mean, he felt bad for even charging me that. But it was that whole lesson of like it was the process. It was like I prayed for I asked for it. But then I also needed to get up off my knees and call the repairman and have it actually checked out to make sure that it was still going to work.
So for me, those miracles are in just those small things like those daily things where I just know that God is with me and that he's hearing me. And listen to that. And I think the more noisy the world gets, and the more crazy it gets. That that is the only truth we can cling on to is that is having that personal revelation in our minds.
Tammy
Absolutely. Thank you, Jalyn.
Shilo
But this reminded me of an experience on my mission about how we can recognize Heavenly Father's hand in our life, but we also need to get up and we need to move. We need to actually go were miracles are. And I thought about when I was with my companion from Korea, and we were walking to make time for the lesson. And then it just started pouring down. And rain in Hong Kong, it's like torrential rains, it like attacks you. And we didn't have an umbrella. So we ran under a bus shelter. And it was pouring and pouring and pouring and we had an investigator wating for us. And so I said, "Okay," I said to my companion, "Okay, I'm gonna pray and then the rain go. You know, Heavenly Father wants us to go to the lesson."
So I prayed and open my eyes and rain is worse. And I was like, "Well, that didn't work."
And then my companion said, "No, we don't just wait. When I walk out, the rain with stop." And I was like "Really?" And I was like, "I'll wait here." And I literally saw my companion walk out and the rain just cleared.
Tammy
Wow.
Shilo
I like, I was amazed and I was embarrassed because of my lack of faith. But she taught me a huge lesson about how we can't just wait also for miracles to happen. Basically to actively go and to walk, even it's raining. We need to go and get wet and then Heavenly Father bless us. And so that reminded me of that experience.
Jalyn
Yeah, it's very much the doubt not be believing part because if you really believe it, you're fine. So yeah, thank you
Tammy
Thank you, both of you, for sharing those experiences and thoughts. That was incredible. Thank you. And so of course, the only thing I have to point out though, the only thing I have left to point out in Mormon, chapter nine is in verses 32 through 34. You guys, go ahead and read it on your own. But let me just point this out that Moroni says that, if he could have written this in Hebrew, he would have. Enough said, I mean, how exciting is that to read?
But because he did it, he couldn't write it in Hebrew, because there wasn't enough room on the plates. So instead, he wrote it in a reformed Egyptian. And I just think that is so cool.
But then I have to read this quote from the book, the book that I use by Ogden and Skinner, and this is what they said:
“Nephites used a modified form of Egyptian in their written records. Moroni made an unusual claim: Had they used Hebrew, he felt, there would have been no imperfections in the record. Could that suggest that Hebrew is a remnant of the pure language of God or at least related to it in some way?” Question mark? I believe so. I think Hebrew is the pure language. And that's why we study Hebrew. Because people always ask me, "Why do we even care what the word means in Hebrew? This is why because it could have been written in Hebrew, it would have been. So when you know the meaning behind Hebrew words and you make those connections, it just opens windows. And just think I cannot believe that. It's just changed the way I read my scriptures. So there is support for why we study Hebrew. But I think that's so cool.
So that's the end of our segment. That's it, ladies, we're done. Thank you so much for being here with me today. This is so cool. So tell me what your takeaway is? Hit it.
Jalyn
Well, it's hard because Shilo gave me so many good takeaways. So first, laying hold, like what other things am I holding in my hands that I'm not laying ahold of the word of God, and that the miracles are in the process.
Tammy
Cross stitchers, both of them, for sure.
Shilo
For me, my takeaway is back to the beginning, on the last words that we leave to our family and friends and in the back of my mind, I thought, "Do I want just to be on my death bed or something like that I can share that with my family, my most loved ones every single day of my life? And I think that was a reminder that these words shouldn't just be read at a funeral, not while I'm sick in hospital bed about to leave, it should be something that we're sharing every day with our loved ones. And it was a reminder to talk more about Jesus.
Tammy
My takeaway was the same one as you, Jalyn, and was Shilo when she said that the miracle wasn't the result. It was the process. I love that. And that is a cross stitcher, at least for sure. I'm writing it, I wrote it in my scriptures on the bottom of that page in the Book of Mormon.
So thank you for sharing that. Thank you, ladies. Oh, I love you both so much. This was such an incredible day, I loved studying these three chapters of Mormon. And look how much came out of those three chapters. That was profound, very deep. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
For those of you that are listening, I would love to know what your takeaway was from today's episode. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go there. I really want everyone to join this because it's such a great place to ask questions and to study. And I love it. When people ask questions, and other people give answers, it's so much fun to follow. And then every week at the end of the week, which is usually on Sunday, I post asking for your big takeaway. And so comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let me know what you've learned. And I read every single one of them because they're so fun. And I learned so much from your takeaways. And then on Mondays, I usually share a cute little video on Instagram. I like how I said cute little video like it's me. I'm so cute.The video's cute, whoever does them.
Jalyn
You're cute.
Tammy
Yeah, I'm cute.
I share a video about the takeaway that really stood out to me that people have shared so go and watch that video. It's fun.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday and go there anyway because it's where we have all of the links to every reference that we used for this episode, as well as complete transcript of this entire discussion. So go check that out.
The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It is written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac. Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were Shilo Kino and Jalyn Peterson and you can find more information about these ladies at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.
Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and Erika Free. It is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We will see you next week. And like Jalyn pointed out the beginning, you are God's favorite.