6: "That You May Come Off Conqueror" (Doctrine and Covenants (10–11)
Do you remember a time when you were at a low point and someone knew just what to say to help you feel better? Maybe they shared some advice that you still use today or maybe it was a few words of encouragement you’ll never forget. For Joseph Smith, it was a little of both. In this week’s lesson, we’ll be studying Doctrine and Covenants 10–11 where we find words of encouragement and advice God has for all of us.
Doctrine and Covenants 1 The Lord’s Preface
Doctrine and Covenants 2 The Coming of Elijah
Doctrine and Covenants 3 Lost Manuscript
Doctrine and Covenants 4 Call to Labor—Joseph Smith Sr.
Doctrine and Covenants 5 Witness of the Book of Mormon—Martin Harris
Doctrine and Covenants 6 What greater witness can you have than from God? Oliver Cowdery
Doctrine and Covenants 7 The Parchment of John
Doctrine and Covenants 8 Spirit of Revelation—Oliver Cowdery
Doctrine and Covenants 9 Oliver Cowdery’s Calling—The Translation of the Book of Mormon
Doctrine and Covenants 10 Do not retranslate—Reality of Satan
Doctrine and Covenants 11 Call to Labor—Hyrum Smith
1 Now, behold, I say unto you, that because you adelivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the bUrim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them.
What advice did God give Joseph Smith?
Title of Section 10: Do Not Retranslate—The Reality of Satan
Quote: “There is power in prayer. All things are possible through prayer.
"It is my testimony, my brothers and sisters and friends, that God does hear and answer prayers. I know without any question that it is possible for men and women to reach out in humility and prayer and tap that Unseen Power; to have prayers answered. Man does not stand alone, or at least, he need not stand alone. Prayer will open doors; prayer will remove barriers; prayer will ease pressures; prayer will give inner peace and comfort during times of strain and stress and difficulty. Thank God for prayer.
"Even during hours of trial and anxiety, it is possible to draw close to the Lord, to feel of his influence and of his sustaining power—that one is never alone, if he will only humble himself before the Almighty” (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Ezra Taft Benson, "Chapter 2: Pray Always," ChurchofJesusChrist.org).
Why didn't Joseph Smith retranslate the 116 pages?
10 And, behold, aSatan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be bwritten, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands (Doctrine and Covenants 10:10).
The reality of Satan: Doctrine and Covenants 10:20–33
- Cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:14–24
25 Yea, he saith unto them: aDeceive and lie in wait to catch, that ye may destroy; behold, this is no harm. And thus he flattereth them, and telleth them that it is no sin to blie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him (Doctrine and Covenants 10:25).
- Anger.The carnal self loves to be angry. It is a self-indulgence that Satan plays upon to keep us distracted from finding the truth (Stephen E. Robinson, H. Dean Garrett, A Commentary on the Doctrine and Covenants, Vol. 1, "Doctrine and Covenants 10," Deseret Book).
34 But behold, here is wisdom, and because I show unto you wisdom, and give you commandments concerning these things, what you shall do, show it not unto the world until you have accomplished the work of translation (Doctrine and Covenants 10:34).
- These things = 116 pages
- Plates of Nephi = Small plates
39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi (Doctrine and Covenants 10:39).
6 But the Lord aknoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men; for behold, he hath all bpower unto the fulfilling of all his words. And thus it is. Amen (1 Nephi 9:5–6).
3 And now, I speak somewhat concerning that which I have written; for after I had made an aabridgment from the bplates of Nephi, down to the reign of this king Benjamin, of whom Amaleki spake, I searched among the crecords which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates, which contained this small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this king dBenjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi (Words of Mormon 1:3).
7 And I do this for a awise bpurpose; for thus it whispereth me, according to the workings of the Spirit of the Lord which is in me. And now, I do not know all things; but the Lord cknoweth all things which are to come; wherefore, he dworketh in me to do according to his ewill (Words of Mormon 1:7).
41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained; (Doctrine and Covenants 10:41).
- Cross Reference Alma 36:22
22 Yea, methought I saw, even as our father aLehi saw, God sitting upon his throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels, in the attitude of singing and bpraising their God; yea, and my soul did long to be there (Alma 36:22).
36 Behold, I do not say that you shall not show it unto the righteous;
37 But as you cannot always judge the arighteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your bpeace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter (Doctrine and Covenants 10:36–37).
- Cross Reference: Exodus 14:14
- Hebrew: Hold you peace = become deaf to world
45 Behold, there are many things engraven upon the aplates of Nephi which do throw greater views upon my gospel; therefore, it is wisdom in me that you should btranslate this first part of the engravings of Nephi, and send forth in this work(Doctrine and Covenants 10:36–45).
- Cross Reference: Doctrine and Covenants 10:62–63
62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my adoctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much acontention; yea, bSatan doth cstir up the hearts of the people to dcontention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do ewrest the scriptures and do not understand them (Doctrine and Covenants 10:62–63).
- Wrest: to twist or distort, to extort by violence, perversion (see Webster's 1828 Dictionary).
Title of Section 11: Called to Labor—Hyrum Smith
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to his brother Hyrum Smith, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, May 1829. This revelation was received through the Urim and Thummim in answer to Joseph’s supplication and inquiry. Joseph Smith’s history suggests that this revelation was received after the restoration of the Aaronic Priesthood (Doctrine and Covenants Section 11 Heading).
Joseph's name in Hebrew = Yosef: He (Jehovah) adds or increases
Hyrum's name in Hebrew = Hiram King of Tyre (1 kings 5:1): brother is exalted, brother of the lofty
8 Verily, verily, I say unto you, even as you desire of me so it shall be done unto you; and, if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this generation (Doctrine and Covenants 11:8).
What will the Holy Spirit lead us to do?
12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your atrust in that bSpirit which cleadeth to do dgood—yea, to do ejustly, to walk fhumbly, to gjudge righteously; and this is my Spirit (Doctrine and Covenants 11:11–12).
- Leadeth to do good
- Do justly
- Walk humbly
- Judge righteously
21 Seek not to adeclare my word, but first seek to bobtain my cword, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my dSpirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the econvincing of men.
22 But now hold your apeace; study bmy word which hath gone forth among the children of men, and also cstudy my word which shall come forth among the children of men, or that which is dnow translating, yea, until you have obtained all which I shall egrant unto the children of men in this generation, and then shall all things be added thereto (Doctrine and Covenants 11:21–22).
- Hath gone forth = Bible
- Shall come forth = Book of Mormon
What does God tell Hyrum to do?
18 Keep my commandments; hold your peace; appeal unto my Spirit;
19 Yea, acleave unto me with all your heart, that you may assist in bringing to light those things of which has been spoken—yea, the btranslation of my work; be patient until you shall accomplish it (Doctrine and Covenants 11:18–19).
- Keep the commandments
- Hold your peace
- Appeal unto the Spirit
- Cleave unto God
- Be patient
Cleave: To sit well on (see Webster's 1828 Dictionary)
- Cross Reference: Isaiah 43:1
Quote: "As misshapen and imperfect as we feel ourselves to be, attention from Deity, reminds us of our true kinship to God" (Father Gregory Boyle).
0:00:00.4 Tammy Uzelac Hall: So today's lesson reminded me of the best prayer that I have ever heard. I was on my mission and my companion and I had just finished teaching about the principle of prayer with the actual steps of praying. This is what they were. Number one said, "Dear Heavenly Father... " or fill in the blank with those dots. Number two, "We thank thee... " Number three, "We ask thee... " And number four, "In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." And so we went over all of these steps with our sweet investigator, and then we asked him if he would be willing to give the closing prayer. And, you guys, he had never prayed before in his entire life. So we all closed our eyes, we bowed our heads, and this sweet man, in complete humility, this was his exact prayer, "Dear Heavenly Father, we thank thee, we ask thee, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." That was it. Now, while some people may have thought that that prayer wasn't exactly perfect, in that moment with the Spirit, we fell, and my companion and I knew, that this man's first prayer was a total success. So today, as we study Doctrine and Covenants, Sections 10 and 11, we're going to discuss the success that can come from every prayer. And honestly, there's so much more in these chapters.
0:01:09.1 TH: Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the Scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, click on the link in the description where you will find an explanation of ways that you can best use this podcast to supplement your Come, Follow Me study. Like our friend, Lisa Kay Nelson in Oregon does, she uses it to teach Sunday School, which is so much fun. Hi, Lisa.
0:01:35.2 TH: Now, my favorite thing, this is truly my favorite thing about the study group, is that each week we get to have two of my friends come and join us, so it's a little different each week. So today I'm excited to announce we have KaRyn Lay and Holly Tree Richardson. Hi, ladies.
0:01:49.6 KaRyn Lay: Hi.
0:01:51.0 Holly Tree Richardson: Hello, hello.
0:01:52.8 TH: Yay! Alright, KaRyn's a regular, we've had her on before, so those of you are like, "Yeah, we know KaRyn."
0:01:56.8 HR: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:01:58.5 TH: But let's talk about Holy Tree Richardson because I've met Holly now through KaRyn. Tell me how you two know each other.
0:02:03.6 HR: So we met through another mutual friend, and I ended up doing a writing retreat with KaRyn and we just... I feel like we really hit it off, and I just love KaRyn.
0:02:15.3 KL: Oh, Holly and I... She's being modest, Holly is the best. She's a delight.
0:02:19.8 TH: Well, tell me something cool about Holly though.
0:02:22.1 KL: Holly is an amazing writer. She... And you're in school for a PhD right now, right?
0:02:27.9 HR: I am.
0:02:28.2 KL: Holly just finished all her coursework and she's working on her dissertation for her PhD.
0:02:33.3 TH: In what? Tell me what you're getting your PhD in.
0:02:35.5 HR: It's actually political science, and really specifically, it's in non-profit management. So I'm looking at burnout in short-term humanitarian aid volunteers. That's my dissertation.
0:02:46.6 TH: Oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you. That's like my life goal, to get my PhD and then I'm like, I don't have it in me.
0:02:52.9 HR: Exactly. It's super hard. It's one of the hardest things I've chosen to put myself through.
0:02:56.9 TH: Yes. That's exactly why I'm not doing it. Plus, you have children. Let's be clear about that.
0:03:02.5 HR: I do. So my husband and I actually have four children that were born to us and we adopted 20 children. And we're also raising a granddaughter, that gives us 25. Unfortunately, we've had several that have passed away, so we have 19 living children, but it's been a joy.
0:03:20.9 TH: Holy cow, Holly. Okay, just that right there, I think everyone's like, "This episode, I can't wait to hear what comes out of this." Just from Holly and we know KaRyn, but the two of you together, this is going to be so awesome. Oh my gosh, I can't wait, I can't wait. For those of you who wanna know more about my friends, you can find pictures and more information about our study group participants every week in our show notes, which are found at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Now, here's a fun fact. The revelation received in Doctrine and Covenants Section 10 was given in April 1829, but some of it was given in the summer of 1828 after the 116 pages have been lost. Just helped me to understand why this section is so packed with so much goodness. So are you ready, ladies, to dig in?
0:04:03.7 KL: Let's do this.
0:04:04.4 HR: I'm ready.
0:04:05.1 TH: Alright, friends, grab your Scriptures and let's dig in. Okay, so ladies, the 116 pages are gone, the Urim and Thummim and the plates were removed from Joseph's care for a bit and we've talked about this in the last few episodes. Joseph bought a farm, decided to start taking care of his family. He gets the Urim and Thummim and plates back, and he is ready to go to work. And so Doctrine and Covenants Section 10, Verses 1 through 3 is what the Lord has to say to him right out of the gates. And KaRyn, will you read those verses for us?
0:04:33.8 KL: Sure. "Now, behold I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate, by the means of the Urim and Thummim into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them." Now listen, the grammar in there is mind-boggling. I am grateful that these exist, but sometimes I wanna be like, "That participle is in the wrong place." I don't know if that's true, but that's what it feels like. Okay, wait, so back to this, "And you also lost your gift at the same time and your mind became darkened. Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun."
0:05:14.1 TH: So He gives him this information, and then the Lord is going to give Joseph two very important pieces of advice. So the very first piece of advice we're gonna focus on is in verse four. And Holly, will you read verse four for us?
0:05:26.4 HR: Yeah. "Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means provided to enable you to translate; but be diligent unto the end."
0:05:35.0 TH: Okay, yes.
0:05:37.9 KL: Holly just totally was like, "Ha ha ha, I'll read this."
0:05:43.5 TH: Tell me why you laughed.
0:05:45.6 HR: Well, with a family as large as mine, I have been a really hard worker for a really long time, but I have been able to get a lot done. And I've been in school, I have a job, and I think sometimes we use that Scripture as a way to say, "Well, slow down. You don't need to do as much." That's why I laughed because people tell me that, "Well, you don't have to run so fast," is what they're telling me. But let's be honest, Joseph Smith, and Emma also, were incredibly busy. I think this idea is pace yourself, but don't be afraid to run as fast as you do have strength. I don't know.
0:06:29.7 TH: Yes, I love that. Okay, now listen, Holly, seriously, can we just talk about this though? 24 kids. You have to tell me, how did this happen?
0:06:39.8 HR: It actually was a news story. Romania had fallen and news stories started trickling out in January of 1990 that there were these orphanages in Romania. And by December of that year, we had three little kids. We had just purchased our first home, and my husband called me and asked me to watch the show with him, and it happened to be 20/20 with Barbara Walters, and they were talking about these orphans in Romanian orphanages. And when I talk about feeling the Spirit, it is that experience. I was on fire from head to toe, and every time I talk about it, I can feel it again. And I just looked at my husband and I said, "I have to go." It still makes me emotional and it's been 30 years. And he said, "I know." And a few weeks later, I was in Romania. I left my little kids behind and we didn't know what was gonna happen, I didn't know if I'd be successful, but I found two little girls and brought him home and that was the start. And I just said, "If there is ever an opportunity to adopt a child who... Especially hard to place with disabilities or older, or from orphanages, that I wanna do it." And it ended up being 20.
0:07:56.9 TH: Oh my gosh. So, Holly, as you were telling your story, and now I love your answer because I'm looking back at the Scripture that says that you're not supposed to run faster or labor more than you have strength and means provided. And that's different for everyone, isn't it?
0:08:10.2 HR: It is, and it's different now for me 30 years later than it was when we did our first adoptions or when I had my first baby. And I think sometimes we get into trouble when we look at people who are running their own race and we say, "Well, I think my race should look like theirs." If you're called to it, great. But if you're not, just run your own race. And that's the thing, right?
0:08:34.1 KL: And I was thinking about that idea of means provided, because that's the key of this little statement to me. Don't run faster than or labor more than you have strength and means provided. And the truth of the matter is the means provided comes from God. So if you feel internally a fire in your bosom, I remember Emily Freeman saying to me once that God just tells her to run, there are times when he says, "Run." And when he tells us to run, he's going to give us the fuel to do the running. And especially if it has anything to do with love and His Gospel and His children, He's gonna give us whatever. And frankly, right now, I'm feeling pretty depleted, so I'm hoping that some of that fuel will come my way, but I think that is the key to the not running faster. He was just telling Joseph like, "Hey, call on me, I'm gonna give you the means."
0:09:34.2 TH: Well, I love that you brought that up, KaRyn, 'cause what I'm noticing is that, like I said earlier, it's a compilation of revelations they believe were received in 1828 and 1829. And what's so interesting is this verse 4, when it says, "more than you have strength or means provided," going back to what you said, KaRyn, here's Joseph Smith like he's ready to translate, he wants to do it, but he can't. He's got a farm, he has to take care of a wife and there's no one to help him. And we learned last week that he prayed specifically to the Lord, "Help me then. You've told me to run, you've told me to translate, but I don't have a way to do it." Three days later, Oliver Cowdery shows up, which by the way, five days previous, he would have began his journey. Well, not even that. Way before that, he had to live with the Smith family. But I just think how the Lord has put everything in motion for us to do what it is that we need to do, because I love the end of this verse. It says, "But be diligent unto the end." This verse isn't a call for us to slough off. It's individual for everyone, but I love how it ends with, "But be diligent unto the end."
0:10:30.9 HR: There were times when I had so many little kids at home that I felt like I could barely shower, let alone shave my legs.
0:10:38.4 TH: I bet.
0:10:40.4 HR: It was like maybe I could do one and then a week later, I could do the other one. But I literally prayed for God to give me the strength and He did. And I prayed to need less sleep...
0:10:55.6 TH: Wow.
0:10:56.9 HR: So that I could get more done, and He did. And I still have that blessing. I only need five or six hours of sleep a night. And it's not that I'm forcing myself to get up, it's that that's how much I need. But I prayed for that blessing and I got it. And it's carried over into my schooling. I went back to school to get a bachelor's degree when I was 49. I'm 56 now, and now I'm a third year PhD student. It's to say, "Oh my gosh, I still have these responsibilities at home and I have school and I need help." And God has always provided the help. He's always provided the way. I guess I would add my testimony that even if it's hard and even if it seems really overwhelming, if you're drawn to it and you feel like you're supposed to do it, you'll be given the ability to do it.
0:11:43.4 TH: Amen.
0:11:43.6 KL: Do you think that that's what the next verse means? Like that that diligence equals praying always? Because as I was looking at that, I'm like, he says, "be diligent", and then the very next thing he says is, "pray always, that you'll come off conqueror." And I think sometimes maybe we conflate diligence with something else. I don't know what that is, like always getting it right. But to me, diligence is constantly calling on the Lord to ask for more strength or to ask for what he needs. And to be clear, I am a person who needs eight to nine hours of sleep at night. God has not given me...
0:12:15.3 HR: Hey, that's normal.
0:12:19.3 KL: God has not given me...
0:12:19.4 TH: I don't even wanna ask for that. Yeah, I don't want to say less sleep. I think that's a brave prayer, Holly.
0:12:22.6 KL: It is a brave prayer. But I do think that it looks different for every person. So what we have to do is recognize that our diligence is... That the prayer is the diligence, and that He'll give us whatever individually we need in whatever individual season we're in, to run the race that we have been called to run. And it's gonna look totally... I have not been asked to raise 20 children. I've been asked to raise half of two children as a step-mom, but that looks different for every one of us.
0:12:57.3 TH: KaRyn, I love that you just said that because I do think there is a connection between being diligent and praying always. I'd never read those verses that way before. So why don't we do this? In the next segment, we're gonna talk about the idea of what it means to pray always.
0:13:16.2 TH: I began this episode with a story about prayer and I'm curious to know, do either of you have a prayer story that stands out?
0:13:27.5 HR: I mean, I do. I think, as I've already mentioned, when I pray for things that I need, I have learned to try to be really specific. So when I pray to say, "Heavenly Father, I need more time in my day, and the only way I know how to do that is to ask for the ability to get by on less sleep," that's a really specific prayer. And it didn't happen overnight. I just realized looking backwards, after maybe several months probably, that I actually was getting by on less sleep, and I think it's a miracle.
0:14:03.0 TH: Absolutely. What about you, KaRyn? Is there one that stands out from your life?
0:14:06.7 KL: Well, here's what I'm thinking. Today is the day of me acknowledging all of my weakness because prayer, formal prayer is really hard for me. I really struggle to sit down in the morning and get on my knees and say a prayer. We pray at every meal, we pray before we drive, do long drives, things like that. But formal, personal prayer is a struggle for me. I find myself instead saying a lot of prayers on the fly. I'll be sitting at my desk in the morning before work, and I'll be like, "Oh, you know what's coming up today, I really need to spend some time talking to Heavenly Father before I do that." So it looks a lot different for me than maybe other people think it should, but my prayer feels like a conversation with Heavenly Father. So I don't know that I have a specific prayer story about it, but I do strive in everything that I do to communicate with my Father in heaven regularly.
0:15:14.7 TH: KaRyn, as you were talking, what part of that made you emotional?
0:15:18.1 KL: I think that we get stuck on things looking a certain way. I'm a perfectionist. But I realize that in the same way that we shouldn't compare our marathons or our races, I shouldn't compare my prayer patterns with other people's. There's something really important to me about my prayers being a constant flow of communication with my Father in heaven, where I can just speak out my gratitude in the middle of the day without the formality. That for me, that brings me closer to him.
0:15:52.5 TH: What I appreciated about your answer was the wording, I don't even know if you recognized you said it when you said the "constant flow of communication with the Lord throughout the day". I don't know that there's a better description of prayer than that. Holly, you're shaking your head.
0:16:05.9 HR: Yeah, KaRyn, that's how I pray. I rarely am on my knees, praying out loud. Maybe it's the definition of having a prayer in your heart, but I talk to God all day. And some of my best prayers are in the shower when I'm crying or they're in the car, or as I'm standing at the kitchen sink, doing dishes. I pray the same way and I think it's lovely.
0:16:27.7 TH: Well, I remember when I was younger at an EFY and then at the MTC, the same person gave the same talk about prayer, and I'll never forget it because this person basically said that you need to make sure that you're showered and dressed and looking nice before you approach the Lord in prayer. Don't roll out of bed with messy hair in your pajamas, 'cause the Lord doesn't wanna hear from you when you're all a mess.
0:16:48.2 KL: I feel like they gave that same talk at every single missionary...
0:16:51.7 TH: Yeah. It's haunting me 'cause I was like, "Oh, I can't... What do you... Alright, I guess God doesn't like a messy soul, so let me just clean myself up and then I'll pray after I'm ready for my day, and then by then I'm busy." So I just... I've had to abandon that old idea or belief because I think God, I think He wants us to pray as a constant communication throughout the day. I love that both of you have pointed that out. In fact, that's what verse 5 is saying. Let's go to Section 10, verse 5, and KaRyn, will you read verse 5?
0:17:19.9 KL: Sure.
0:17:20.7 TH: Just stop after the comma.
0:17:22.2 KL: "Pray always."
0:17:23.4 TH: There it is, right there. Pray always. And that's what you're doing. I think that's what we're all doing.
0:17:28.6 KL: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do.
0:17:29.8 TH: Okay, now keep reading the rest of the verse, 'cause here's what we're gonna pray.
0:17:32.6 KL: Okay. "Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work."
0:17:42.8 TH: Alright, let's label this section. So Section 10, the label for Section 10 is do not re-translate the reality of Satan. So if you can remember these... And you can even put "pray always" in there if you'd like to remember. That's a scripture mastery scripture. So a lot of your seminary students are like, "I know that Scripture." So here's my question, does this work in your opinion? How can prayer help us conquer Satan?
0:18:04.6 HR: I really think it's part of the strength given to you when you need it, and sometimes it comes slowly and sometimes it comes quickly, but it always comes. And I think having the constant prayer in your heart helps you be maybe more in tune with situations that could be dangerous, either spiritually or physically. It helps you discern. I think that's something we need in the world today right now, is some discernment.
0:18:33.0 TH: Yeah, I totally agree with you, Holly; the ability to have this discernment. What are some things... And here's another question too about praying, what are we allowed to pray for?
0:18:44.4 KL: Whatever we want to pray for, whatever we need to pray for, but God's got lessons for us along the way about what kind of prayers will bless our lives the most. Right? So I don't think that there's anything we're not allowed to pray for, but I do think that God will tutor us in the ways to pray that will bless our lives the most, because prayer is a gift, it's a blessing. I just think it's one of the best tools that God has for our learning.
0:19:15.5 HR: Can I say something about unanswered prayers? When our second child was born, she was born with really significant disabilities, and I had never thought that I would be the mother of a child with special needs. And we prayed that she would be healed from those, which looking back is a little bit funny, but we did, and my husband prayed to ask if He could heal her, and the answer was, "No, no. This is the way she's meant to be and this is her life path." And at the time, there was so much grief. I remember Elder Wirthlin's statement, "But if not." That talk, "But if not." And I've had many of those moments of, "Make it go away but if not, I want to choose to stay on the path, even if it means that I go through something super painful," and at the time it was really painful, and by the end of her life, when she was 17 and passed away, she was a huge blessing in our family and had really changed the course of our family because without her birth and her disabilities, we never would have adopted at all, let alone kids who had a variety of special needs. I think we all have experiences with unanswered prayers.
0:20:34.9 KL: Or answered in a way that we're really unhappy about, right?
0:20:40.8 HR: Answered in a really different way. Yeah.
0:20:43.2 TH: And it goes back to, it was answered in a different way, but you were given the strength and the means to do what the Lord needed you to do. I love that. I want us to read this quote by Ezra Taft Benson, it's really powerful, and this is what he has to say about prayer. Holly, will you please read this quote for us?
0:21:01.4 HR: "There is power in prayer, all things are possible through prayer. It is my testimony, my brothers and sisters and friends, that God does hear and answer prayers. I know without any question that it is possible for men and women to reach out in humility and prayer and tap that unseen power to have prayers answered. Man does not stand alone, or at least he need not stand alone. Prayer will open doors; prayer will remove barriers; prayer will ease pressures; prayer will give inner peace and comfort during times of strain and stress and difficulty. Thank God for prayer. Even during hours of trial and anxiety, it is possible to draw close to the Lord, to feel up his influence and of his sustaining power, that one is never alone if he will only humble himself before the Almighty."
0:21:48.9 KL: I love that he said prayer will give inner peace and comfort during times of strain and stress and difficulty because I think to me, when I said that prayer was a blessing and a gift, that to me is the blessing and the gift. This opportunity, every single moment of every single day to stop what you're doing, to meditate upon the goodness and the graciousness of our Father in heaven, and to reflect on ourselves and our own path, I know that that sounds like, "Oh, all that's happening in the two seconds that you say, 'Help me', right?" But it kind of is like in the moment that you reach out and the minute that you stop what you're doing to connect to heaven in a moment, all of those things come back to us. And I do think that prayer is a meditative comforting gift from our Father in heaven.
0:22:42.0 TH: It brought to mind my own experience with prayer and that I married into a special needs daughter, and I was not prepared for that at all, and there was a time where it was really, really hard when she was in her teenage phase, and we did not know what we were doing, and I can just remember my husband and I thinking, the only thing we can do is pray, and so we pray together as a couple at night, but we decided we're gonna up our prayers 'cause this kid needs help, and so my husband and I would pray every morning before he left for work, and I would pray that God would change my daughter, that was my prayer. And we prayed together for months, and the most amazing thing is that God didn't change my daughter, but He changed my heart, and that was the answer that I needed, and it was funny 'cause it wasn't what I was praying for, but God gave me the tools that I needed to be able to help my daughter.
0:23:30.5 KL: Well, so what I was thinking is that, as you were talking about your experience, like you were praying for one thing, expecting that that's what was going to happen, that the prayer would be that your daughter would change, but the actual given good, not the expected good was that you changed. And that's the truth of the Scripture, is that He offers two ways to come off conqueror. One is to conquer Satan, to cast Satan out, to beat him down, and then the other is to escape the power of Satan through his servants or whoever else he's sending. And so sometimes it's a conquering and sometimes it's an escape, but either one is given to us by God. And so when we look for the answer to our prayer, maybe, maybe we can shift our thinking a little bit, or when we see the gift that's been given, we can have more gratitude for it maybe.
0:24:18.4 TH: And I think what I did is I escaped my hard heart, I escaped my will.
0:24:22.0 KL: Yeah.
0:24:24.3 TH: That's what the Lord did for me through those prayers. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for putting out those words, that was great. So there's purpose in giving this advice to Joseph Smith and to all of us who are listening, and I love how KaRyn incorporated praying always into being diligent, be diligent by praying always because what we're up against and what we're about to see according to Doctrine and Covenants Section 10, is what Satan is going to attack us with, and we're gonna study that in the next segment.
0:24:54.9 TH: Going back into Doctrine and Covenants Section 10. Here's what we have. So Joseph Smith is told, "Do not run faster. Pray always." And then he says, "And here's the deal, don't re-translate." And when you two were reading this section, did you notice the trap that Satan was gonna set?
0:25:11.1 HR: Well, one of the things is that the people who had ended up with 116 pages were changing some of the words, so that if it was re-translated, they would say, "Look, it's different." So clearly, he does not have the gift of translation.
0:25:30.4 TH: Holly, will you read that verse for us? It's in verse 10.
0:25:34.2 HR: "And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands."
0:25:42.2 TH: Very good. So he's basically like, "Don't re-translate, I'm not gonna let you do it." And then he says, listen, and it's interesting how many times the Lord said, "Satan has put it into their hearts." How many times the word "heart" is involved in here, like to their core, to their human of who they are, we've talked about the word "heart"? And then in this section, this is the reality of Satan part. In Doctrine and Covenants Section 10 verses 20 through 33, the Lord teaches us about the reality of Satan. And so I asked you two, before we met, to read over those verses and just tell us what strikes you in these verses about some of Satan's tactics or tools? Will you teach us what you found?
0:26:19.9 KL: So I know this isn't in verse 20, but as we were reading this chapter, in verse 10, he says, which you just read, he says, "Behold, Satan hath put into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written," and then he says, "put into their hearts and inspire... "
0:26:33.5 TH: He says it three times.
0:26:34.1 KL: I think he even says inspire. And it just made me think like, I had never thought before of Satan as a creative being, but he is creative, he's creative in the way that he is trying to subvert the work of God and he's creative in the way that he's putting thoughts and ideas into people's hearts and heads. And as a creative person, I'm always wondering like, okay, if that's the case of Satan can sort of inspire the hearts of men to do evil, can he inspire me? And am I an open vessel for that kind of inspiration, as opposed to the inspiration that I seek from my Father in heaven? Good inspiration.
0:27:11.9 TH: Great insight. Keep going. Holly, what do you got?
0:27:15.1 HR: When I saw verse 25, that's the one that stood out to me. "Yea, he saith unto them: Deceive and lie in wait to catch, that ye may destroy; behold, this is no harm. And thus he flattereth them, and telleth them that it is no sin to lie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him." So when I read that, what it made me think is, Satan tells us that the ends justify the means, that it's okay to lie if you can catch somebody else in a lie; it's okay to cheat if you can catch somebody else who's cheating, and then the flattery, right?
0:27:54.0 TH: Oh, yeah.
0:27:56.4 HR: That's mentioned several times. He just flatters them. He tells people, he tells us that we're smarter than other people, we're better than other people, that if only they were smart like us, that what we do doesn't matter, and I actually, as a researcher, I've come across some research on power that tells us that power literally changes people's brains. When we are in positions of power, we want people to get out of our way because don't they know who we are? I have a place to be! And we can even use that little thing to say, "But I'm special." And we are special, right? 'Cause we're all God's favorite, Tammy. [laughter] But when we take that to mean that other people are not special and that we have some kind of elevated status over them, I think we need to recognize that that comes from Satan.
0:28:50.0 TH: Yes.
0:28:50.1 KL: And I was also thinking, Holly, that the other part of that, if you go down to the next verse, after he flatters them, he causeth them to catch themselves in their own snare.
0:29:02.1 TH: Oh, yeah.
0:29:02.2 KL: And I was thinking about how it's a little bit like he sets the dominoes in motion. I imagine Satan just flicking those dominoes at the beginning, like just... And then it starts and we're just along for the ride. And he almost gets to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves, because all he has to do is trigger that sense of importantness or power or ego, and then watch that just blossom and bloom and fire up in us, and it's so scary and so sad, but it's also a constant reminder that we have to watch ourselves. That's what the Scriptures tell us like, "Watch yourself because the snare is set."
0:29:40.1 TH: I love the insights you both shared about Satan's tactics in these verses, and one of them that stood out to me was 24, it says, "Yea, he stirreth up their hearts to anger against this work." And I read that, I'm like, Yeah, I know that and I marked the word "anger", that seems very obvious. But one of the things that I read about the word anger, which really struck me is, in one of my commentaries, we'll put this in our show notes, is what it said that the carnal self loves to be angry, and that hit me, 'cause there have been times where I have felt justified in my anger, I have held on to that anger. I love anger...
0:30:12.4 KL: It's addictive.
0:30:15.4 TH: Yeah, it's addictive. And I've also learned in the amount of time we spent in therapy as a blended family that anger is a secondary emotion. And so when you can really recognize what's underneath the surface that's causing the anger, it's easier to heal from, but Satan doesn't want you to explore that, he just wants you to be angry, because the minute you recognize, oh, actually I'm hurt or I'm sad or I feel betrayed, when you can recognize what it really is, then you can actually hone in on that and fix it, but you can't fix anger, you just can't. And so it's interesting that, that's the word that it's used there, that he stirs up their hearts with this anger, and we love to be angry.
0:30:53.2 KL: Well, and you can't fix anger, but you can express anger.
0:30:54.9 TH: Oh, yeah.
0:30:57.3 KL: And that's the thing, right?
0:31:00.2 TH: Mm-hmm.
0:31:00.7 KL: Because if he can get you to express it, then watch those dominoes fall, baby.
0:31:04.3 TH: Yep, 100%. Awesome. Anything else in those verses that stood out to you guys?
0:31:10.1 KL: The other thing is just that "Satan thinketh," this is in verse 33, that "Satan thinketh to overpower your testimony in this generation, that the work may not come forth in this generation." Satan is bent on making sure that God's work does not spread. He'll do anything he can to overpower our testimony. That's his ultimate... Like if God's work in his glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, then Satan's work is to stop the work and to overpower our testimonies. And I just... I got nothing for him.
0:31:47.6 TH: I love that. "I got nothing for him." I'm writing that down. Oh, please. Okay, so going back to this idea of coming off conqueror. We discussed in the earlier segment that prayer works to come off conqueror, right? Prayer. But that's not the only thing. So here's what I wanna know from both of you, what is your advice to people or a child, what can they do, what else can we do to come off conqueror, to defeat Satan, to not fall into these traps that he has? What works?
0:32:16.9 HR: I think one thing is patience, and it's something I see in my own children, they feel like if there's not an immediate answer or there's not an immediate alleviation of whatever the problem is, that there's no God and that nobody cares. So I think that's one thing that I've tried to teach my kids is, "Look, we're playing a long game here," and it's doing the things we know we need to do because we have faith that in the end, they will work out. But that's one of the things that my kids struggle with is there's no... Maybe it's the digital age, but there's no immediate response, and then they say, "Okay, well, then I'm done."
0:32:54.9 TH: That's a great example.
0:32:57.6 KL: I suspect that one of the ways that Satan thrives in our society and in our world right now is in the silence, right? We speak of Christ, we talk of Christ, and I think that we should speak of Christ and talk of Christ, but there are times with our kids where they need to know that there is opposition and that there are ways to conquer that opposition. And so, for me, I think we've been talking a lot about the power of the priesthood, we've been talking a lot about learning our own power as conquerors and as the covenant children of God, as covenant women and covenant people, that we literally have access to that priesthood that cast Satan out. We see it so much in the Doctrine and Covenants. And our kids need to know that they have the tools and the power as baptized members of the Church of Jesus Christ to call down that power and to cast Satan out. And so it's been really powerful for our family to have those conversations and to teach our children literally how to do that. We're teaching them their power to call down heaven.
0:34:03.2 TH: I love that you pointed out the power that comes from covenants, and that the minute we're baptized, we all have power. That's so awesome. More power than Satan will ever have, by the way.
0:34:15.7 KL: More power. More power.
0:34:15.9 TH: More power, yup. What a great conversation to have with our kids about how to defeat Satan. Thank you, KaRyn. Power and patience. Perfect examples of how to overcome this. KaRyn, you read verse 33, I love verse 34 when the Lord says, "But behold, here is wisdom." So he's gonna give us something and as clever as Satan may think he is, as intricate as his traps may appear, we're gonna see in the next segment exactly what the Lord has to say about that.
0:34:54.2 TH: Okay, so let's get back into Doctrine and Covenants Section 10. Now remember, Joseph Smith was told not to re-translate because Satan had a trap, and then the Lord tells us all of the tactics that Satan is going to use, which by the way, you could cross-reference all of those verses in Section 10 verses 20 through 33 with 2 Nephi 28:14-24, which we'd studied that at length last year, and that 2 Nephi reference are Satan's tactics in the Book of Mormon, so I would cross-reference that. But what was so cool about verse 34 was when the Lord comes in and says to Joseph, "But here is wisdom." Sure, Satan may think he has a hand on this, but he doesn't, because here is wisdom, look what I've done. So let's go to verse 43, and we're gonna read this out loud and then I'm just gonna go kind of institute style on some of these verses 'cause it's so much fun. So Holly, will you read verse 43 for us?
0:35:41.5 HR: "I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil."
0:35:48.7 TH: And it absolutely is. So let's start in verse 38, and I'm gonna have you guys mark a bunch of things, so grab your Scripture markers and your pens, and let's find out what the Lord has to say to Joseph about the translation process. So in verse 38, it says, "And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands... " Mark that, those are the 116 pages that the Lord's talking about. Then he says, "is engraven upon the plates of Nephi." Now plates of Nephi, write next to that the small plates, that's what he's talking about. These are the small plates of Nephi. Because what the Lord is saying here is, the 116 pages, those are what we call the record of Lehi, and that's what Joseph Smith had translated. And he's like, That's gone, we're not gonna worry about that anymore. What I want you now to do is go to the small plates of Nephi, and I'm gonna have you write from those. And verse 39 gives us some more information about this. KaRyn, will you read verse 39?
0:36:42.5 KL: "Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi."
0:36:49.5 TH: Now let's put two cross-references next to that verse. I love this. Let's put 1 Nephi 9:5-6 and then Words of Mormon 1:3 and then verse 7. And let's go there. So here he is saying, you remember that it said in those writings in the plates of Nephi that there was gonna be a more particular account given upon the small plates of Nephi. Like, he read that in Lehi. But now we have in 1 Nephi 9:5-6, this is kind of a fun part. We get to see a little bit of Nephi's personality here. And Holly, will you read 1 Nephi 9:5-6 for us?
0:37:27.0 HR: "Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not. But the Lord knoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men; for behold, he hath all power unto the fulfilling of all his words. And thus it is. Amen."
0:37:47.6 TH: Right here, I love this, there it is the word, But it's a wise purpose in him. Those are the same words the Lord uses in Section 10, "Here is wisdom, this is a wise purpose. It's so awesome." And so Nephi is like, "Alright, I'll make another set of plates." And I just think it's so cool 'cause it's basically the Lord's way of saying to us, "Well, let me show you what I did about a thousand years ago, because I knew this was gonna happen." Then the next reference is in Words of Mormon 1:3 and 7, so let's go to Words of Mormon, and that's on page 143 in the Book of Mormon, at least in my Book of Mormon. Mormon is finishing the Book of Mormon, he has seen the destruction of his people, everyone is dead except for his son, Moroni and a few other people, and Mormon is now writing, he's saying, "Okay, I'm gonna put in some notes right here," and here's what he has to say in verse 3 and then verse 7. Go ahead, KaRyn.
0:38:37.3 KL: "And now, I speak somewhat concerning that which I have written; for after I had made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi, down to the reign of this King Benjamin, of whom Amaleki spake, I searched among the records which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates, which contained this small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this King Benjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi." And this is 7, and he said, "And I do this for a wise purpose; for thus it whispereth me, according to the workings of the Spirit of the Lord which is in me. And now, I do not know all things; but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come; wherefore, he worketh in me to do according to his will."
0:39:15.8 TH: Again, here is he's saying, "I don't really know why I'm doing this, but I'm gonna do it." And then in Doctrine and Covenants Section 10, the Lord's gonna tell us why he had them do this. So let's go to verse 41, and in verse 41, it says, "Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the small plates of Nephi," I added the word small so you know, "down even until you come to the reign of King Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated." So he's basically saying, "So go into the small plates of Nephi, find the story, start with the reign of King Benjamin and start to translate." So Joseph and Oliver will translate during the month of April and May, they will translate all of Mosiah until the end of the Book of Moroni. They don't even start on 1 Nephi, they start in Mosiah, finished translating to the end of Moroni. Now, this is pretty important, I really like this. I put a cross-reference next to these just to remind me of the truthfulness of all of this, I put Alma 36:22, and I want us to go there real quick. So here they are, it's between April and May, they're translating Mosiah, now they're translating the Book of Alma and they translate Alma 36:22. Let's go there, and Holly, will you read that verse for us?
0:40:24.9 HR: Yes.
0:40:25.2 TH: This is Alma speaking to his son about his conversion experience and what that was like, but look how cool this one verse is.
0:40:30.4 HR: "Yea, methought I saw, even as our father Lehi saw, God sitting upon his throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels, in the attitude of singing and praising their God; yea, and my soul did long to be there."
0:40:43.5 TH: Now, that experience he just said, he thought he saw like Lehi did this vision. Well, that vision that Lehi has is in 1 Nephi 1:8, it hasn't even been translated yet, so Joseph Smith couldn't have interjected like, I think I'll write this in that Alma would have seen this. He doesn't even know what happened. So next to that verse, I put 1 Nephi 1:8, that's when it happened. And I don't know if it said it in the Book of Lehi, but for me, it's a great evidence that Joseph Smith would translate this specific story in Alma 36:22 when in 1 Nephi 1:8 specifically says this same wording that he saw numberless concourses of angels and the vision that he had, it was kind of cool. In fact, KaRyn and Holly, do you have anything to interject right now? Any thoughts or any like, huh?
0:41:28.0 HR: I think what really is striking me is that these are prophets who say, "I don't know, I don't have the answers, I don't know why I'm doing this." And how many times, like we've referenced in previous segments already, how many times do we say, "Well, I don't know, so I must not be getting an answer." It just really struck me that these are prophets of God who have... Some of them seen God sitting on his throne, and they're saying, "I don't know, but I'll do it."
0:42:00.9 TH: Anything you're thinking on, KaRyn? You look pensive.
0:42:03.7 KL: I love what Holly just said about prophets having these moments of saying, I don't know, because the part of this Scripture section that really struck me, we kind of zipped right past and it's back in 37 where the Lord is talking to Joseph Smith and he says, "But behold, Here is wisdom," and then in 36 and 37, he says, "Behold, I do not say that you shall not show it unto the righteous," he's talking about what they should and shouldn't do but he says, "But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter."
0:42:42.8 KL: I keep asking myself like, how in this time and these times when there's so much information that's coming from all sides and it's all confusing and there's so much there, how can I possibly learn to judge righteously? To check myself to say, could I be wrong about this? And can I be wrong about this? And what the Lord is teaching us in both what Holly said and in these Scriptures is that even prophets have to be led step by step by God, and that humility and the ability to say, "I don't know" is one of the greatest gifts that we can give to one another and to the work of God. And we have to normalize "I don't know". We have to normalize "I might not be right."
0:43:27.6 TH: "I'm not sure." Mm-hmm.
0:43:31.1 HR: I think KaRyn, also being able to ask the Lord, "Is it I?" Right? Being able to say...
0:43:36.2 KL: 100%
0:43:38.2 HR: "Where's my part in this?" Right? "Is there something that I need to be doing differently or learning differently? Lord, is it I?"
0:43:46.4 KL: Yeah.
0:43:46.8 TH: Well, and I just have to reiterate this again, we talked about this last week, but it's here in Scripture again, when you read in verse 37, where he says, "Therefore I say unto you, hold your peace." We have to cross-reference that to Exodus 14:14 because last week, I talked about what this means in Hebrew, and I love this 'cause it has everything to do with what both of you just said. The phrase "hold your peace" in Hebrew means "to ignore". Think about what that means to hold your peace when we're living in a world where we are being yelled at from both sides, with constant, a barrage of just thoughts and ideas and what other people think and feel, and here the Lord is saying, "Hold your peace. Be deaf to everything except for what I'm going to give you in your mind and in your heart."
0:44:29.9 KL: And he was saying that to them ahead of all this information about the plates, right?
0:44:35.7 TH: Yeah.
0:44:36.9 KL: He was like, "Hey, you don't have what it takes to judge this." Even as a prophet of God, you may not be able to tell evil from good sometimes, righteous from unrighteous. And so let me tell you, let me help you to discern and help you to find this. And that goes back to the pray always, right?
0:44:54.4 TH: Yup.
0:44:54.4 KL: Like praying always keeps us diligent and helps us to allow the Lord to show us righteous and unrighteousness.
0:45:04.8 HR: I think that just ties right in with, "Be still and know that I am God." We have to find stillness in our lives.
0:45:12.9 TH: 100%. So let's go back to Section 10 and we're gonna look at verse 45 and cross-reference it with verse 63, because the Lord says, "Behold, there are many things engraven upon the plates of Nephi, the small plates, which do throw greater views upon my gospel; therefore, it is wisdom in me that you should translate this first part of the engravings of Nephi, and send forth in this work." Now turn the page, and we're going to look at verse 62 and 63 in conjunction with that verse. And KaRyn, will you read verse 62 and 63?
0:45:41.3 KL: "Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me. And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the Scriptures and do not understand them."
0:46:12.0 TH: I like the word wrest, I love the definition of this. It means to twist, to distort or to exhort by violence or perversion. It doesn't mean to just take a rest for they rest, like they don't read the Scriptures, they're taking them and twisting them, and distorting them and the whole purpose of writing the Book of Mormon is so that the Lord can bring out the true points of his doctrine, and this is really important we understand this. I'm gonna include in our show notes where you can go to the church website and read and study these nine points of doctrine. This is a piece of doctrine that will never change. As members of the Church of Jesus Christ, when someone tries to distort or wrest anyone of these pieces, that is a red flag for you. KaRyn, when you had read those verses that Satan, he's going to stir up his people to contention concerning these points of doctrine, my question is, why is it important for us to know about these nine true points?
0:47:05.5 KL: I think it goes back to that idea of judgment, right?
0:47:07.1 TH: Mm-hmm.
0:47:09.7 KL: We need to stay close to the Spirit, so that we can judge righteously and we're gonna make mistakes, but the more information we can arm ourselves with, the easier it will be for us to recognize truth from error.
0:47:22.9 TH: Oh, absolutely, I agree 100% with you. Okay, so that concludes our discussion of Doctrine and Covenants Section 10. So in the next segment... Oh, this is a fun one. Someone comes to visit Joseph Smith and this person asked a question that prompted the answer given in Doctrine and Covenants Section 11.
0:47:49.8 TH: Okay, I'm gonna ask a question to both of you. If you were to hear in a blessing given to you or maybe someone else, I don't know, but if you were to hear these words, "You shall be the means of doing much good in this generation." What kind of good would you immediately think of? KaRyn, your face, I love it. You're like, aargh!
0:48:07.1 KL: That's a lot of pressure. I don't know if I could handle that kind of pressure. [chuckle]
0:48:13.8 TH: You're like, "Can we start that blessing over again, please?"
0:48:16.0 KL: Yeah, yeah. "Are you sure? You sure you got the right person?" I'd be looking around to see who is standing too close to me, I'm like, "You're ruining my vibe. Get outta here." [laughter]
0:48:28.0 TH: What about you, Holly?
0:48:31.3 HR: I think the answer would be different depending on what age I was when I got that, so...
0:48:34.7 TH: Oh, yeah.
0:48:36.2 HR: Now in my 50s, I think about the children that I've raised, I think about the words that I write and how I share information and writing, and sometimes my testimony. So I think it can vary. I'm probably not as deep a thinker as KaRyn 'cause I'd be like, "Oh, cool. I think they will do good. Whoo!" [laughter]
0:48:58.0 TH: I know, right? You two would be like, "Alright, I'll do some good. What does that mean? Yeah, who am I gonna work with?" Well, I'm so glad and I'm grateful for your candid answers, that is awesome, because those words were given to the person that this revelation was given to. So go to Section 11 and look at the section heading for me and tell me who came to visit Joseph Smith.
0:49:18.0 HR: It was his brother Hyrum.
0:49:20.6 TH: Yes. So Hyrum comes to visit Joseph to see how he is doing. And he asks Joseph a question, he says, "What can I do? Tell me what I can do to help." Joseph goes and prays and says, "Here's the revelation for you." I love this, I love names, you know that, and I love to look up what names mean in Hebrew. So this was interesting. So Joseph's name in Hebrew is Yosef, and that means "he will increase or he will add to." Meaning Jehovah, Jehovah will make something greater or add to or increase. But listen to Hyrum's name. In Hebrew, the name Hyrum comes from an Old Testament name, it's in 1 Kings 9:11 is one of the places you can read about a king and the name Hyrum means... Oh, this is crazy... My brother is exalted.
0:50:07.1 KL: Oh!
0:50:07.9 HR: Wow!
0:50:08.4 TH: Isn't that crazy? So here we have these two brothers and they're together, and Joseph's getting this really great revelation, so we're gonna jump into what the Lord had to say to him. Now, I've said this before, we're gonna skip verses 1 through 6 because they are repeated in Section 6 and also in Section 12. So we're gonna study those when we study Section 12 next week, so let's skip there and we're gonna go right to the meat of his blessing in verse 8. And here's something interesting is as you're reading verse 8, mark the word "desire" 'cause it said so many times in this section, I counted eight times. That tells us a lot about Hyrum and why he's coming to Joseph. So go ahead and read verse 8 for us, Holly.
0:50:49.0 HR: " Verily, verily, I say unto you, even as you desire of me so it shall be done unto you; and, if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this generation. "
0:51:00.4 TH: So the title for this section is going to be, "Called to Labor, Hyrum Smith." Section 11 is Called to Labor, Hyrum Smith. He is being called to labor in the Lord's vineyard, and he's going to do much good in this generation, and there's no doubt. We know that, right? But I'm sure Hyrum has no idea what we're talking about and he's like, "Alright, well, what can I do? What can I do?" And so the Lord is going to say to him in verse 9 and verse 10 that he has a gift, and that because of this gift, if he has a desire, he's gonna be able to serve the Lord and do amazing things. This gift that he's specifically talking about in verse 9 and 10 is the gift of the Holy Ghost. And then he gives us an example in verse 11 and 12, and let's read verses 11 and 12. KaRyn, can you read that for us?
0:51:45.9 KL: Yeah. "For, behold, it is I that speak; behold, I am the light which shineth in darkness, and by my power I give these words unto thee. And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in the Spirit which leadeth to do good; yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit."
0:52:02.4 TH: Verse 12 might be my favorite verse of Scripture of all time because right here, this is going to tell us the age-old question, "How do I know if it's the Spirit or my own crazy thought?" We're gonna number what the Spirit will do for us as I read them out, so number them with me in verse 12, it says, "Put your trust in that Spirit, which 1] leadeth to do good, 2] to do justly, 3] to walk humbly, 4] to judge righteously. This is my Spirit. The Holy Ghost will lead you to do those things," so you're like, Well, how do I know if it's my own thought? Any thought that you have, which is a thought for good is the Holy Ghost. No matter what it is, no matter who it's for, it's the Spirit. I'm curious to know from either of you, do either of you have an experience where the Spirit led you to judge righteously or to do justly?
0:52:53.7 HR: I think judging is always a little dicey, but I think I can share that I've learned empathy as I have learned to talk or listen to multiple sides of the story, and I think the danger that we sometimes get into again, is that we only think that there's one perspective, and having a fuller picture has really helped me gain empathy for people who have made poor choices in their lives. That doesn't mean I condone or accept necessarily, but I can understand sometimes why their path headed the way that it did. I'll just give you a brief example. I have two daughters that have the same biological mother, and she was very successful in a career that's traditionally male-dominated, she was an electric line woman, and with the money came some additional temptations and she tried methamphetamines and she found herself addicted to the meth. And our daughters, the youngest one, when she was born, she was born in severe congestive heart failure because of her mom's meth use.
0:54:08.1 HR: Now, it was easier for me when I was younger to say, "Oh, my gosh, it's so terrible," but as I've gotten older and as I've been able to raise these girls, and now they're both adults, I have deeper feelings of empathy and love towards her for the difficulties that she faced in her life, for somebody who got trapped in addiction and didn't know how to get out, that she also realized that she was not going to be able to raise these girls, and our family have that opportunity and they have a mom and a dad and a bunch of siblings that love them. I just think that sometimes, it's easy to judge and it's a lot harder to take a step back and say, "Why would somebody make that decision? What circumstances led them to that point?" And that's where I think we get to maybe the judge righteously, and then sometimes I think we have to really be careful of, is it our role?
0:55:04.3 TH: That's a great example, Holly. Thank you for sharing that story.
0:55:07.7 KL: I actually really love that the Spirit will help us to judge righteously. I was sitting on a bench across from a train station a little while ago in COVID times, and I was eating my lunch and there were very few people out and about. I'm watching the train station and somebody, a man gets off the train and he has a guide dog with him, and all I can see as I'm eating my lunch is this man kind of being mean to his guide dog, and I was watching him yell at the guide dog, and then he got on the phone and he was yelling at the phone, and of course, all of a sudden my hackles go up because something's not right here, and I'm looking up how to report dog abuse. He wasn't abusing the dog, but he was definitely being rough with it, and I was really stressed out about that. And I was looking, scrolling through my phone, looking about hotlines I could call to report guide dog abuse or whatever was happening. And to be honest, he looked disheveled. You could tell that he wasn't... I was like, "What in the world is going on here?" His clothes are all over the place, and he's yelling and he's upset, and the dog went to the edge of the platform and sat down on his haunches, and the guy started to dip his foot out onto the train tracks. And I realized he was blind and that this was a blind dog... 'Cause guide dogs can be for lots of different things.
0:56:29.4 KL: And all of a sudden, the Spirit said to me, "Take a closer look." And I remember that moment where the Spirit said, "Take a closer look" because I was on the phone, ready to call some hotline, and instead I yelled a couple of times and then I realized I had to get up and I left everything on the bench, and I walked over far enough away and I didn't have a mask with me or I didn't have a mask on, and I just said, "Sir, do you need some help?" But I wasn't kind, I was kind of like, "What's going on here? Do you need some help?" And the minute that I got close enough to really see what was happening, and I asked him if he needed help, all of a sudden, he said, "Yeah."
0:57:10.3 KL: And he calmed down and he said, "Yeah, I need help. I'm blind and I'm deaf, and one of my cochlear implants has stopped working, so I can only hear out of one ear, and my dog doesn't know where we are, we got off the wrong train, the dog doesn't know where to take me." And he named his dog, he said, "My dog's name is Henry, we're stuck in this space, we don't know where to go, they can't help me on the phone 'cause I only have one cochlear implant that's working, and the other one is dead. Can you please guide me to where I need to wait for the train so that I can get on the right one?"
0:57:44.9 KL: So I went back and I grabbed my mask, and I walked up and I started talking to him, and he introduced me to his dog, and he explained that the dog was really stressed out, and he's just trying to wrestle with the situation and get everything in place, and I noticed that his clothes were inside out because he's blind and he probably put them on himself. But immediately, my judgment was, I realized that Heavenly Father was teaching me the lesson that things aren't always what they seem, and that if I'm too quick to judge without offering to step back and look at things as they really are, then I'm gonna miss some opportunities to help somebody. And in that moment, I was able to help him get to his train and to get on the right train. And he had time to give the dog some water because he wasn't stressed out about missing his train. He also seemed to be on the spectrum somehow, and it was just a moment when I was grateful for the Spirit stopping me and saying, "Take a closer look."
0:58:41.9 TH: Wow, thank you for being inspired to share those stories, because both of your stories were a witness that the Spirit really does teach us to do these things, that the Spirit will give us thoughts and impressions, and I have countless experiences in my own life where I have had just a thought to do something good, something beyond my own thoughts for somebody, whatever it is, if it's make cookies or write a letter or whatever. Any time you have a thought that is other than your own, any time you have a thought which is a thought for good, it is the Spirit. That's how you can know the difference. Is this the Spirit or is it my own crazy thought? It doesn't matter. If it's a good thought, God's gonna love it. So thank you, both of you for sharing those stories. That was incredible. So in the next segment, we're gonna find out what else the Lord told Hyrum about doing much good in this generation.
0:59:38.5 TH: So here's my last question for you two, this is a big question that I'm gonna ask you guys and I pre-asked it 'cause I wanted you to really think about this. Has there ever been a time when God asked you to wait for the thing that you wanted right then that you are praying for?
0:59:53.6 KL: Like every time? [chuckle]
1:00:00.4 HR: Yeah. I feel like that's one of the conditions of prayer is that sometimes, when we ask for something... I was just reading that talk by Michael Wilcox called When Prayers Seem to Go Unanswered, and he talks about the fact that sometimes the Lord needs time to help us to carve out the hollow space where the answer can come, and He's always doing that for us, and so I feel like so many things in my life have been a sort of, "Just be patient. You'll see how this all comes together. You'll see that you get what you want in a way that you never expected," and I can't even put my finger on a specific one, but I feel like that's a condition of life on some level.
1:00:42.4 HR: Yeah, I'm the same as KaRyn. I think a lot of prayers are "not right now" or "I don't have a clear answer." I think one of the things that I know about myself is that I don't like uncertainty. I think that's normal. We like things to be predictable, and when I read books, I'll read about a third and then I flip to the end because I wanna see how it ends, or I know if I wanna finish the book, it drives me a little crazy. But I just don't like surprises like that. So when I pray and say, "Okay, what's next?" And I don't get an answer, then I go around it and say, "Okay, well, here's my decision," and I don't get an answer, that can be frustrating to me, and I whine and moan and complain and say, "But I just need to know." So lots of times, I've had lots of times where I get to learn patience and I get to learn how the Lord speaks to me. But yeah. And sometimes the answer is, "Just be patient, Holly. Just be patient."
1:01:46.4 TH: Well, this idea, this concept tells us so much about Hyrum. We get to learn a lot about him in this chapter, because like I said earlier, the word "desire" comes up eight different times. Hyrum is so excited, I mean, he is ready to go, he just wants to like, the go ahead from Joseph, let's get started, and the Lord's like, "Okay, well, here's a couple of things you need to know." First of all, in verse 15, he says to him, you can't call yourself to be a preacher. That was a very common practice during this time, people would just start up and he's like, okay, you can't self-appoint, and then he gives him this verse in verse 16. And KaRyn, will you please read verse 16?
1:02:23.7 KL: Yeah. He says, "wait a little longer, until you shall have my word, my Rock, my church, and my gospel, that you may know of a surety my doctrine."
1:02:32.3 TH: And this "wait a little longer", Hyrum will be baptized the next month. In one month, he'll be baptized in June of 1829, but the church won't be organized until April of 1830, and he won't be ordained a priest until June of 1830. So it's interesting when he says, wait a little while. And sometimes that can be a year, sometimes it can be 10 years, whatever it is, but the Lord knows 'cause he knows all the way down, it is wisdom in him, he absolutely gets what's going on. And so he says, "I want you just to wait a little while and then... "
1:03:03.6 KL: Can I ask a question though? So at this point, at this point, Hyrum, he says, "Until you shall have my word, my Rock, my church, and my gospel", I know you said he won't get baptized for another... What'd you say? A month?
1:03:18.9 TH: Month.
1:03:19.6 KL: He won't get baptized for another month, so he doesn't have the gift of the Holy Ghost yet, 'cause baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost didn't happen at the same time back then, right?
1:03:28.4 TH: Right. He has the influence of the Holy Ghost. So in May of 1829 is when he get this revelation. In May also, the priesthood is restored and then in June, Hyrum will be baptized.
1:03:40.2 KL: So the Lord is basically saying, There's more coming, you can't see it, you need to have the right foundation before you jump into this work, or else it's not gonna be as effective as it can be. Right?
1:03:50.6 TH: Yes!
1:03:51.3 KL: Is that's what he's trying to say?
1:03:51.4 TH: Perfect, KaRyn. Because now, let's look at verse 21 what he says to him. Go to verse 21 and 22, this is great.
1:04:00.1 KL: He says, "Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men." I love that 'cause he's like, that's his whole thing. Like, it's coming but you don't have all of it yet. If you try to do it right now, you'll give people pieces and we need the wholeness.
1:04:21.8 TH: Well, and read verse 22 for us.
1:04:24.4 KL: "But now hold your peace." [laughter] That's the hold your peace, right?
1:04:28.5 TH: Mm-hmm.
1:04:28.6 KL: "Study my word which hath gone forth among the children of men, and also study my word which shall come forth among the children of men, or that which is now translating, yea, until you have obtained all which I shall grant unto the children of men in this generation, and then shall all things be added."
1:04:45.8 TH: And I like the wording in here when he says, "Study my word which hath gone forth," that hath means the Bible, and then he says, "Study my word which shall come forth", and that shall means the Book of Mormon. So he's saying, study the Bible, study the Book of Mormon and then you will have all things be added unto you. Holly, is there anything specific that you marked in these verses, in 18-30?
1:05:08.9 HR: Actually, what I'm really noticing right now is this, "hold your peace". I've read these verses before, but when I heard them, I'm thinking like, "hold your piece", like P-I-E-C-E. Like your piece of paper, but it's P-E-A-C-E. With your Hebrew lesson, actually, it really makes a lot of sense. It's the keep your peace internally, right?
1:05:36.6 TH: Right.
1:05:36.7 HR: Hold on to your internal peace, which is something that's really standing out right now, so I think that's really great.
1:05:44.0 TH: Oh, I like that, Holly. Well, and in this idea in verse 18, I like the specific instruction. In verse 18 and 19, there are five specific things that he tells Hyrum to do, and you know I love to number things, so we're gonna number them; number 1] He says, Keep my commandments. Number 2] There it is again, Holly, hold your peace. Number 3] Appeal unto my Spirit. Number 4] In verse 19, "Cleave unto me with all your heart that you may assist in bringing light to those of which has been spoken and the translation of my work", and then 5] Be patient. There's yours, Holly. I love that. Be patient until you shall accomplish it. And this idea of cleaving is so powerful. We've defined this word before. If we wanna mark that, that it means to stick to, to adhere, to unite, to fit, but I love this, it can also mean to sit well on. Like, to just sit with it, to cleave unto something, to sit and stay for a while.
1:06:38.8 HR: Yeah, I like that imagery. And I think those five things, I think that's really the answer when we start to struggle with whatever it is, not having prayers answered quickly enough or whatever, right? But if you keep the commandments, if you can sit still and hold your peace, if you appeal unto my Spirit which to me says prayer again, and then the cleave unto me and then be patient, I think that's the answer. When I read those two verses, the 18 and 19, that's what I did. We have buried multiple daughters sadly and there's a period of time in the grief where I can't feel the Spirit or it's just dark. And it feels like your prayers bounce off the ceiling, it feels like there's nothing there, but one of the things that I learned the first time was that if I kept doing the daily things that made a difference in the normal times, that eventually, I would feel that Spirit again. And so, it was continuing to go to the temple even though I didn't feel anything. It's continuing to read the Scriptures and pray, even though I didn't feel anything, I couldn't feel, I couldn't get any answers. It's saying I have faith that I can get through this tunnel and came out of the other side, and it's these things right here that I fell into, but they worked. And now I know, if I faced dark times again, which everybody does, that that's the way to get through 'em, you stick to what you know and the morning will come.
1:08:13.7 TH: Oh, Holly. What I love about verse 23 when it says, "Behold thou art Hyrum" or "Behold thou art Holly, my daughter. Seek the kingdom of God and all things shall be added according to that which is just." That is exactly what you just described, it's what you talked about. And going to verse 23, I want us to cross-reference it with an Old Testament Scripture. Let's put Isaiah 43:1, just proof that the Lord knows our name. Holly, when we get there, will you read that, please?
1:08:44.6 HR: "But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: For I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine."
1:08:56.7 TH: Anytime you read about Israel, your ears should perk, that means you. And he's saying to us, "Fear not, I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine." He knows your name, 100% knows your name. Whatever it is we're going through, and Holly, when you just shared that you've buried several children and everything you described that helps you get through it, I just think verse 23, "Behold thou art Holly, my daughter." It's just a beautiful ending to this chapter. I'm reading this book right now, and it's by a Jesuit priest, and I love a part in the book where he says, "As misshapen and imperfect as we feel ourselves to be, attention from deity reminds us of our true kinship with God." So my question to you then is, how does that affect your kinship to him if he knows your name?
1:09:45.9 KL: Yeah, I just love that he says, "You're mine." He knows our names, but more than just knowing our names, he knows that we belong to Him. It's nice for people to know your name, maybe that means you're a celebrity, but it's even more... It's that sense of belonging that comes with understanding that God sees me as his, that's the thing that changes the way I interact.
1:10:14.0 TH: Well, thank you, ladies. Thank you. That's the end of our discussion.
1:10:16.5 KL: We did it!
1:10:20.1 TH: We did it. That was it. That's Section 10 and 11. So thank you for being here. Take a couple of minutes now and gather your thoughts, and I'm just gonna ask you what your takeaway was from today.
1:10:30.1 HR: I think I have a couple of takeaways. My first is that I pray like KaRyn prays, and it's good to know that we're not the only ones. [laughter] Truly. And the other one is, this idea of hold your peace, P-E-A-C-E. That's really rattling around in my brain that it's not what I thought, that it's this internal peace.
1:10:53.3 TH: Excellent, thank you.
1:10:55.6 KL: I think the thing that I'm gonna think about and ponder some more this week is that idea that Satan's whole goal is to cause us to catch ourselves in our own snare. He sets the domino in motion, but I let the anger and the whatever ride. And I'm the one, I'm the only one that can stop that too with heaven's help.
1:11:15.1 TH: That was great, thank you. Both of you. So my takeaway is from KaRyn, and I really liked it when you said that the way you pray is a constant communication with the Lord, a constant flow of communication with the Lord is what you said, and it just really... I like that because then you talked about how maybe you think that being diligent and praying always are connected, and I'd never thought of that before and now I am, and so thank you for having me think about that. 'Cause in my mind, sometimes being diligent means just doing what I gotta do, I'm fine, I don't need anybody's help. And maybe being diligent also does include the constant prayers and asking for help, to be diligent... I don't know. It just made me think, so thank you, I appreciate that. I love it when I get to think.
1:11:53.8 KL: Thank you, Tammy. I learned a lot.
1:11:56.2 TH: Alright. Well, I love you both. This was so much fun, and the stories you brought and the life experiences, good stuff.
1:12:03.5 KL: Thanks, friend. Thank you.
1:12:05.5 TH: Thank you.
1:12:05.5 KL: Good to see you, Holly.
1:12:08.2 HR: Thank you.
1:12:08.2 TH: So for those of you who are listening, we would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode. If you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook, and if you're not following us on Instagram, you totally should. This is such a great place where you can study throughout the week and ask questions, and I try to answer all the questions that you guys post, and a lot of people send me private messages with questions, you can do that, too. Then at the end of the week, usually on a Sunday, we put up a post that asks what your big takeaway was from this lesson, so comment on the post that relates to this specific lesson and let us know what you've learned, and I read every single one. I just love hearing what you guys are learning. Now, you can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. And it's also not a bad idea to go there anyway, because that's where we have the links to every one of the references we use today, as well as a complete transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.
1:12:57.8 TH: The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today, our incredible study group participants were Holly Tree Richardson and KaRyn Lay. And you can find more information about these ladies at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. It is recorded and mixed by Mix at 6 Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here, we'll see you next week. And please do not forget this, He knows your name because you were his favorite.
1:13:35.1 TH: Yup, absolutely. Okay, alright. Whoo! Here we go. Shake it off. Alright. Get normal. I actually put deodorant on today for this.
1:13:46.9 KL: Get normal! [laughter]
1:13:49.9 TH: Whoo! You know I don't wear deodorant.
1:13:50.0 KL: Tammy just said, "Get normal."
1:13:52.9 TH: Get normal. I have to 'cause I'll get like all weird like, "Hello and welcome to the 5 o'clock news", and so I gotta like, just be me. Alright.